1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
#81
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Took your advice and checked some voltages.
Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
1: Prior to starting = 13.2
2: While starter engaged = 11
3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
11.2
And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
steady at all.
Make any sense? Provide any clues??
Mike
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>
>Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
>`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
>the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
>spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
>terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
>voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Trying to set the timing.
>>
>> Can't do it.
>>
>> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>>
>> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> speed.
>>
>> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>>
>> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>>
>> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>>
>> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> the distributor or elsewhere.
>>
>> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> modifications to the electrical system.
>>
>> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>>
>> Thanks ......
>>
>> Mike
>> Michael Pomeroy
>>
Michael Pomeroy
Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
1: Prior to starting = 13.2
2: While starter engaged = 11
3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
11.2
And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
steady at all.
Make any sense? Provide any clues??
Mike
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>
>Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
>`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
>the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
>spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
>terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
>voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Trying to set the timing.
>>
>> Can't do it.
>>
>> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>>
>> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> speed.
>>
>> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>>
>> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>>
>> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>>
>> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> the distributor or elsewhere.
>>
>> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> modifications to the electrical system.
>>
>> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>>
>> Thanks ......
>>
>> Mike
>> Michael Pomeroy
>>
Michael Pomeroy
#82
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Took your advice and checked some voltages.
Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
1: Prior to starting = 13.2
2: While starter engaged = 11
3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
11.2
And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
steady at all.
Make any sense? Provide any clues??
Mike
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>
>Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
>`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
>the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
>spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
>terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
>voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Trying to set the timing.
>>
>> Can't do it.
>>
>> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>>
>> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> speed.
>>
>> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>>
>> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>>
>> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>>
>> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> the distributor or elsewhere.
>>
>> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> modifications to the electrical system.
>>
>> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>>
>> Thanks ......
>>
>> Mike
>> Michael Pomeroy
>>
Michael Pomeroy
Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
1: Prior to starting = 13.2
2: While starter engaged = 11
3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
11.2
And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
steady at all.
Make any sense? Provide any clues??
Mike
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:
>
>Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
>`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
>the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
>spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
>terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
>voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Trying to set the timing.
>>
>> Can't do it.
>>
>> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>>
>> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> speed.
>>
>> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>>
>> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>>
>> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>>
>> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> the distributor or elsewhere.
>>
>> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> modifications to the electrical system.
>>
>> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>>
>> Thanks ......
>>
>> Mike
>> Michael Pomeroy
>>
Michael Pomeroy
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Roughly 1/19/04 06:10, Mike Romain's monkeys randomly typed:
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
#84
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Roughly 1/19/04 06:10, Mike Romain's monkeys randomly typed:
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
#85
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Roughly 1/19/04 06:10, Mike Romain's monkeys randomly typed:
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
> Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.
>
> I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.
>
> Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
> believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
> where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.
A cheap o'scope works reasonably well if it is due to a plug
wire, defective plug, or poorly grounded plug. Any difference
between the plug waveforms is usually a good place to start.
> Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
> light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
> the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
> run richer no problem.
I wonder if there is a small undetected vacuum leak making it
lotsa fun here.
--
Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of
mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade...
#86
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Mike
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
#87
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Mike
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Mike
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
Tried all the suggestions here except the fuel filter.
Took the ignition module back off, scrapped some bare metal from the
fender where it mounts and connects, and made sure it was tightened
back down well. No help.
Took some booster cables and tried all of the areas you suggested.
Great suggestion I'd have never thought of, and to keep in the mind
for the future.
But no improvement noted at all.
And this engine is missing bad, even when revved up. It is not
driveable. But the problem is not just at idle -- it is at ALL engine
speeds.. From a fast idle, which is what is required to keep it
running, all the way through a fast RPM.
And this may not be the only problem I have, but with either of the
two timing lights I have you can see the erratic flashing at ALL
engine RPMs. (It seems more erratic at slower RPM, but that may be my
imagination or misinterpretation.
(And, of course, I had to check out the timing lights again to make
certain what I was seeing was real and not an artifact of the light
itself. So I again put one of them on my 91 Cherokee and it worked
just fine.)
Mike
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 09:35:33 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
>A bad ground comes to mind next, then a bad ignition module.
>
>I test the grounds with a booster cable. I run it from the battery
>negative to the engine block and see what happens, if the same I then
>tag the distributor itself with the booster cable. (I have seen a few
>distributors loose their ground due to surface rust)
>
>If still no joy I then tag the firewall with the booster cable and then
>the ignition module itself. The module needs a good ground or it will
>try and steal one through the distributor.
>
>How is the fuel filter? A plugged up one can starve the carb for fuel
>at idle and cause the inductive miss you see. When the pump comes up in
>speed, it can force gas through a partially plugged filter.
>
>So can a fuel filter that is in upside down. If upside down, it will
>pump too much gas back to the tank at idle and can starve the carb for
>fuel.
>
>Just a few more thoughts for you...
>
>Mike
>
>pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Didn't say this in the initial posting because I didn't think it
>> relevant, but original carb is gone and there is a Weber on there now.
>>
>> And I don't know for sure, but looking back and thinking back I
>> believe I've had this problem for some time -- even when the original
>> carburator was still in place. (The Scrambler is driven on an
>> irregular basis.)
>>
>> Still no joy -- more suggestions please ......
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 09:44:58 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
>> >went after parts.
>> >
>> >It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
>> >gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
>> >problem.
>> >
>> >I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
>> >
>> >Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
>> >from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
>> >
>> >http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
>> >
>> >Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
>> >with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >
>> >pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Trying to set the timing.
>> >>
>> >> Can't do it.
>> >>
>> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>> >>
>> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> >> speed.
>> >>
>> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>> >>
>> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>> >>
>> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>> >>
>> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
>> >>
>> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> >> modifications to the electrical system.
>> >>
>> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>> >>
>> >> Thanks ......
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> Michael Pomeroy
>>
>> Michael Pomeroy
Michael Pomeroy
#89
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
That is perfect.
You have no power to the coil issues.
The power comes through a ballast wire that acts like a voltage
regulator sort of. It lowers the voltage.
The pulsing is because the negative on the coil pulses from the
distributor pickup to send the spark to one cylinder at a time by
shutting off the coil.
Mike
pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Took your advice and checked some voltages.
>
> Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
> 1: Prior to starting = 13.2
> 2: While starter engaged = 11
> 3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
>
> Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
> terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
> 1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
> 2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
> 11.2
>
> And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
> steady at all.
>
> Make any sense? Provide any clues??
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
> >`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
> >the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
> >spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
> >terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
> >voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
> >
> >Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Trying to set the timing.
> >>
> >> Can't do it.
> >>
> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >>
> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >> speed.
> >>
> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >>
> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >>
> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >>
> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >> modifications to the electrical system.
> >>
> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >>
> >> Thanks ......
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Michael Pomeroy
> >>
>
> Michael Pomeroy
You have no power to the coil issues.
The power comes through a ballast wire that acts like a voltage
regulator sort of. It lowers the voltage.
The pulsing is because the negative on the coil pulses from the
distributor pickup to send the spark to one cylinder at a time by
shutting off the coil.
Mike
pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Took your advice and checked some voltages.
>
> Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
> 1: Prior to starting = 13.2
> 2: While starter engaged = 11
> 3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
>
> Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
> terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
> 1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
> 2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
> 11.2
>
> And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
> steady at all.
>
> Make any sense? Provide any clues??
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
> >`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
> >the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
> >spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
> >terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
> >voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
> >
> >Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Trying to set the timing.
> >>
> >> Can't do it.
> >>
> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >>
> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >> speed.
> >>
> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >>
> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >>
> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >>
> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >> modifications to the electrical system.
> >>
> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >>
> >> Thanks ......
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Michael Pomeroy
> >>
>
> Michael Pomeroy
#90
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
That is perfect.
You have no power to the coil issues.
The power comes through a ballast wire that acts like a voltage
regulator sort of. It lowers the voltage.
The pulsing is because the negative on the coil pulses from the
distributor pickup to send the spark to one cylinder at a time by
shutting off the coil.
Mike
pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Took your advice and checked some voltages.
>
> Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
> 1: Prior to starting = 13.2
> 2: While starter engaged = 11
> 3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
>
> Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
> terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
> 1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
> 2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
> 11.2
>
> And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
> steady at all.
>
> Make any sense? Provide any clues??
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
> >`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
> >the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
> >spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
> >terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
> >voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
> >
> >Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Trying to set the timing.
> >>
> >> Can't do it.
> >>
> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >>
> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >> speed.
> >>
> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >>
> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >>
> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >>
> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >> modifications to the electrical system.
> >>
> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >>
> >> Thanks ......
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Michael Pomeroy
> >>
>
> Michael Pomeroy
You have no power to the coil issues.
The power comes through a ballast wire that acts like a voltage
regulator sort of. It lowers the voltage.
The pulsing is because the negative on the coil pulses from the
distributor pickup to send the spark to one cylinder at a time by
shutting off the coil.
Mike
pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Took your advice and checked some voltages.
>
> Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
> 1: Prior to starting = 13.2
> 2: While starter engaged = 11
> 3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6
>
> Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
> terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
> 1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
> 2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
> 11.2
>
> And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
> steady at all.
>
> Make any sense? Provide any clues??
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
> >`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
> >the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
> >spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
> >terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
> >voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
> >
> >Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Trying to set the timing.
> >>
> >> Can't do it.
> >>
> >> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >>
> >> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >> speed.
> >>
> >> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >>
> >> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >>
> >> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >>
> >> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >> the distributor or elsewhere.
> >>
> >> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >> modifications to the electrical system.
> >>
> >> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >>
> >> Thanks ......
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> Michael Pomeroy
> >>
>
> Michael Pomeroy