An update -- Still no luck.

Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
distributor cap and rotor (twice).

I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
too.

Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
frustrated ......

Mike

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:

>Trying to set the timing.
>
>Can't do it.
>
>Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>
>Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>speed.
>
>Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>
>Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>
>Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>
>No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>the distributor or elsewhere.
>
>Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>modifications to the electrical system.
>
>Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>
>Thanks ......
>
>Mike
>Michael Pomeroy

Michael Pomeroy

 

An update -- Still no luck.

Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
distributor cap and rotor (twice).

I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
too.

Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
frustrated ......

Mike

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:

>Trying to set the timing.
>
>Can't do it.
>
>Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>
>Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>speed.
>
>Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>
>Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>
>Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>
>No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>the distributor or elsewhere.
>
>Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>modifications to the electrical system.
>
>Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>
>Thanks ......
>
>Mike
>Michael Pomeroy

Michael Pomeroy

 

An update -- Still no luck.

Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
distributor cap and rotor (twice).

I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
too.

Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
frustrated ......

Mike

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:

>Trying to set the timing.
>
>Can't do it.
>
>Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>
>Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>speed.
>
>Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>
>Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>
>Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>
>No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>the distributor or elsewhere.
>
>Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>modifications to the electrical system.
>
>Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>
>Thanks ......
>
>Mike
>Michael Pomeroy

Michael Pomeroy

 

Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.

I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.

Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.

When was the last time you changed the gas filter?

Is the gas filter in right side up? That can really mess you up. The
center outlet goes to the carb and the top outlet goes to the return
line.

If the return line isn't at the top and if the filter is even slightly
plugged, the gas will take the clear bypass line back to the gas tank
and it will starve the carb for gas. The bypass line isn't filtered so
you can blow through it even when the center outlet is blocked solid.

Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
run richer no problem.

The engine will run rough and have a burble or miss in it if the carb is
set too lean. Did the same person set the new carb mix up as the old
carb? Maybe they don't know the proper way to set the mix?

You also could just have a crappy timing light.

Could your intake manifold be loose? That will lean the crap out of it
at idle and is a pretty common thing to happen. Even more common is for
the carb to come loose after replacement. This also will lean her out
big time.

Good luck....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.

I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.

Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.

When was the last time you changed the gas filter?

Is the gas filter in right side up? That can really mess you up. The
center outlet goes to the carb and the top outlet goes to the return
line.

If the return line isn't at the top and if the filter is even slightly
plugged, the gas will take the clear bypass line back to the gas tank
and it will starve the carb for gas. The bypass line isn't filtered so
you can blow through it even when the center outlet is blocked solid.

Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
run richer no problem.

The engine will run rough and have a burble or miss in it if the carb is
set too lean. Did the same person set the new carb mix up as the old
carb? Maybe they don't know the proper way to set the mix?

You also could just have a crappy timing light.

Could your intake manifold be loose? That will lean the crap out of it
at idle and is a pretty common thing to happen. Even more common is for
the carb to come loose after replacement. This also will lean her out
big time.

Good luck....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

Not enough gas getting to the cylinders at idle is still my guess.

I also changed everything including the freaking distributor.

Those damn inductive timing lights are crap for diagnosing a 'miss',
believe me. If you do a google search on me you will find the post
where I got suckered by the timing light last summer sometime.

When was the last time you changed the gas filter?

Is the gas filter in right side up? That can really mess you up. The
center outlet goes to the carb and the top outlet goes to the return
line.

If the return line isn't at the top and if the filter is even slightly
plugged, the gas will take the clear bypass line back to the gas tank
and it will starve the carb for gas. The bypass line isn't filtered so
you can blow through it even when the center outlet is blocked solid.

Oh, how about the idle mix screws on the carb? If too lean, the timing
light can give the same crap for readings. If all else fails, maybe set
the carb up richer to see if that allows you to set the timing. It will
run richer no problem.

The engine will run rough and have a burble or miss in it if the carb is
set too lean. Did the same person set the new carb mix up as the old
carb? Maybe they don't know the proper way to set the mix?

You also could just have a crappy timing light.

Could your intake manifold be loose? That will lean the crap out of it
at idle and is a pretty common thing to happen. Even more common is for
the carb to come loose after replacement. This also will lean her out
big time.

Good luck....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

ECU .... $$$$$ ... :-(
<pomerom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qimm00djtnp24m1ueesdoed7mdki9vjfrr@4ax.com...
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

ECU .... $$$$$ ... :-(
<pomerom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qimm00djtnp24m1ueesdoed7mdki9vjfrr@4ax.com...
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

ECU .... $$$$$ ... :-(
<pomerom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qimm00djtnp24m1ueesdoed7mdki9vjfrr@4ax.com...
> An update -- Still no luck.
>
> Have now replaced the ignition module AND the distributor (with a
> rebuilt unit). So this goes along with new plugs, wires (twice),
> distributor cap and rotor (twice).
>
> I have read other recent suggestions and will be following up on those
> too.
>
> Please give any more advice you can, because I've now become very
> frustrated ......
>
> Mike
>
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:16:26 GMT, pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >Trying to set the timing.
> >
> >Can't do it.
> >
> >Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> >
> >Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> >or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> >periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> >same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> >difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> >speed.
> >
> >Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> >any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> >
> >Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> >timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> >
> >Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> >Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> >plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> >
> >No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> >the distributor or elsewhere.
> >
> >Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> >modifications to the electrical system.
> >
> >Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> >
> >Thanks ......
> >
> >Mike
> >Michael Pomeroy
>
> Michael Pomeroy

 

Took your advice and checked some voltages.

Battery (all measured with a multimeter across the battery terminals):
1: Prior to starting = 13.2
2: While starter engaged = 11
3: While running at a very fast idle = 14.5-14.6

Voltage to coil (measured with a multimeter from the negative battery
terminal to the red wire on top of the coil itself):
1: With engine off but key on = 7.6
2: With engine running at a fast (though ragged missing) idle = 10.9-
11.2

And, note, this 10.9-11.2 was bouncing around constantly, not staying
steady at all.

Make any sense? Provide any clues??

Mike



On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 16:07:39 -0500, Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com>
wrote:

>
>Have you checked the voltage at the coil? If your `82 is the same as my
>`79, the coil gets full battery voltage while cranking from a terminal on
>the starter relay, then drops to a lower voltage (via a resistive link
>spliced into the harness) while running. If there's a corroded splice or
>terminal in the "run" circuit someplace, you'll get easy starts (full
>voltage) but crappy running (low or intermittant voltage).
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Trying to set the timing.
>>
>> Can't do it.
>>
>> Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
>>
>> Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
>> or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
>> periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
>> same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
>> difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
>> speed.
>>
>> Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
>> any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
>>
>> Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
>> timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
>>
>> Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
>> Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
>> plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
>>
>> No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
>> the distributor or elsewhere.
>>
>> Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
>> modifications to the electrical system.
>>
>> Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
>>
>> Thanks ......
>>
>> Mike
>> Michael Pomeroy
>>

Michael Pomeroy