1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
times.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes and
> the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else had
> similar problems.
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > went after parts.
> >
> > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > problem.
> >
> > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> >
> > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> >
> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> >
> > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Trying to set the timing.
> > >
> > > Can't do it.
> > >
> > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > >
> > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > speed.
> > >
> > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > >
> > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > >
> > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > >
> > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > >
> > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > >
> > > Thanks ......
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Michael Pomeroy
them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
times.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes and
> the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else had
> similar problems.
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > went after parts.
> >
> > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > problem.
> >
> > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> >
> > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> >
> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> >
> > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Trying to set the timing.
> > >
> > > Can't do it.
> > >
> > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > >
> > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > speed.
> > >
> > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > >
> > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > >
> > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > >
> > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > >
> > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > >
> > > Thanks ......
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
times.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes and
> the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else had
> similar problems.
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > went after parts.
> >
> > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > problem.
> >
> > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> >
> > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> >
> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> >
> > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Trying to set the timing.
> > >
> > > Can't do it.
> > >
> > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > >
> > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > speed.
> > >
> > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > >
> > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > >
> > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > >
> > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > >
> > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > >
> > > Thanks ......
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Michael Pomeroy
them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
times.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes and
> the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else had
> similar problems.
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > went after parts.
> >
> > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > problem.
> >
> > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> >
> > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> >
> > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> >
> > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Trying to set the timing.
> > >
> > > Can't do it.
> > >
> > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > >
> > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for 1
> > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > speed.
> > >
> > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1; or
> > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > >
> > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > >
> > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > >
> > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues inside
> > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > >
> > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > >
> > > Thanks ......
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
>
> The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> times.
>
> Mike
>
> breyfogle wrote:
> >
> > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
and
> > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
had
> > similar problems.
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > went after parts.
> > >
> > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > >
> > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > >
> > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > >
> > > > Can't do it.
> > > >
> > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > >
> > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
1
> > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > speed.
> > > >
> > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
or
> > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > >
> > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > >
> > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > >
> > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
inside
> > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > >
> > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > >
> > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > >
> > > > Thanks ......
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
A failure of the fuel filter. I can't believe where Daimler put it,
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
A failure of the fuel filter. I can't believe where Daimler put it,
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
A failure of the fuel filter. I can't believe where Daimler put it,
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
their engineers must have never have driven in Mexico.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
I am thinking it is coming in from the hose to the charcoal canister for
sure because I have gotten black bits. That seems to happen after
running out of gas, the vacuum sucks chunks. Someone else recommended a
clear gas filter on that line which is a good idea.
The other bad spot is the line from the filter to the carb. It has a
serious dip in it that can collect junk. Especially if the Jeep sits
and gas evaporates away.
When I did my last carb kit last Jan., I cleaned that steel tube really
well. My carb has stayed stable all year. Just recently it messes now
and then, but I also have just recently run out of gas a couple times so
expect to find some black bits when it pisses me off enough to fix it.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> > I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> > them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> > cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> > that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
> >
> > The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> > choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> > fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> > times.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > breyfogle wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
> and
> > > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
> had
> > > similar problems.
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > > went after parts.
> > > >
> > > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > > >
> > > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
> 1
> > > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > > speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
> or
> > > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > > >
> > > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > > >
> > > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
> inside
> > > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks ......
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > Michael Pomeroy
sure because I have gotten black bits. That seems to happen after
running out of gas, the vacuum sucks chunks. Someone else recommended a
clear gas filter on that line which is a good idea.
The other bad spot is the line from the filter to the carb. It has a
serious dip in it that can collect junk. Especially if the Jeep sits
and gas evaporates away.
When I did my last carb kit last Jan., I cleaned that steel tube really
well. My carb has stayed stable all year. Just recently it messes now
and then, but I also have just recently run out of gas a couple times so
expect to find some black bits when it pisses me off enough to fix it.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> > I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> > them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> > cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> > that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
> >
> > The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> > choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> > fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> > times.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > breyfogle wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
> and
> > > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
> had
> > > similar problems.
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > > went after parts.
> > > >
> > > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > > >
> > > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
> 1
> > > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > > speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
> or
> > > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > > >
> > > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > > >
> > > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
> inside
> > > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks ......
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > Michael Pomeroy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 1982 CJ8 six cylinder spark problem
I am thinking it is coming in from the hose to the charcoal canister for
sure because I have gotten black bits. That seems to happen after
running out of gas, the vacuum sucks chunks. Someone else recommended a
clear gas filter on that line which is a good idea.
The other bad spot is the line from the filter to the carb. It has a
serious dip in it that can collect junk. Especially if the Jeep sits
and gas evaporates away.
When I did my last carb kit last Jan., I cleaned that steel tube really
well. My carb has stayed stable all year. Just recently it messes now
and then, but I also have just recently run out of gas a couple times so
expect to find some black bits when it pisses me off enough to fix it.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> > I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> > them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> > cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> > that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
> >
> > The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> > choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> > fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> > times.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > breyfogle wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
> and
> > > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
> had
> > > similar problems.
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > > went after parts.
> > > >
> > > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > > >
> > > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
> 1
> > > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > > speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
> or
> > > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > > >
> > > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > > >
> > > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
> inside
> > > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks ......
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > Michael Pomeroy
sure because I have gotten black bits. That seems to happen after
running out of gas, the vacuum sucks chunks. Someone else recommended a
clear gas filter on that line which is a good idea.
The other bad spot is the line from the filter to the carb. It has a
serious dip in it that can collect junk. Especially if the Jeep sits
and gas evaporates away.
When I did my last carb kit last Jan., I cleaned that steel tube really
well. My carb has stayed stable all year. Just recently it messes now
and then, but I also have just recently run out of gas a couple times so
expect to find some black bits when it pisses me off enough to fix it.
Mike
breyfogle wrote:
>
> Any ideas on what clogs the passages? Offroad, dust injestion seems likely
> but even around town I seem to have to clean the jets every 3 months or so.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4006DEB0.8927350A@sympatico.ca...
> > I have a set of metered files for welding torch tip cleaning so I used
> > them to oversize the crimped end of the idle tubes inside the venturi
> > cluster. It seems to help keep them clear longer. They have drill bits
> > that size at welding supply shops for reaming them out too.
> >
> > The venturi cluster will come out from the top if you just remove the
> > choke butterfly plate. The choke rod can stay put. This makes a trail
> > fix real easy if the tubes block up out there. Has happened to me a few
> > times.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > breyfogle wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting.... I have been periodically blasting both the venturi tubes
> and
> > > the idle jets with spray carb cleaner for years. Never knew anyone else
> had
> > > similar problems.
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:4006A76A.9DB95678@sympatico.ca...
> > > > I got suckered with those symptoms and an inductive timing light and
> > > > went after parts.
> > > >
> > > > It was plugged idle tubes in the carb. The lack of or wrong amount of
> > > > gas reaching the plugs affected the timing light implying a spark
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > I figured it out after there was nothing electrical left to change...
> > > >
> > > > Here is a link on the idle tubes and the fix for them. I can fix them
> > > > from the top in about 15 minutes now that I know how to do it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/engine/carter.html
> > > >
> > > > Also a kit for that carb is only twenty bucks or so and should be done
> > > > with every major tuneup or spark plug change.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > pomerom@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to set the timing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can't do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Engine starts easily and runs, but very ragged.
> > > > >
> > > > > Intermittent no spark to each plug. Will show a spark correctly for
> 1
> > > > > or 2 or 5 or whatever correct rotations; then go away for various
> > > > > periods from momentary to up to several seconds; then more of the
> > > > > same. Apparent at idle and at higher rpm's -- with the only
> > > > > difference in the rate of spark obviously correlated with engine
> > > > > speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can be observed by putting the inductive timing light sensor on #1;
> or
> > > > > any other cylinder wire; or on the coil-to-distributor wires.
> > > > >
> > > > > Got a second inductive timing light. Same exact symptoms. (Both
> > > > > timing lights work just fine on my 90 Cherokee).
> > > > >
> > > > > Battery is good and fully charged. Weather is warm (I live in
> > > > > Florida). Have replaced the coil, the distributor cap & rotor, the
> > > > > plugs, and the plug wires. Nothing made any difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > No evidence of any corrosion or other obvious mechanical issues
> inside
> > > > > the distributor or elsewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have owned the vehicle since new so I know there have been no
> > > > > modifications to the electrical system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Help please -- what do I check now. What should I do??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks ......
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > Michael Pomeroy