134a Refrigerant
#761
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I thought Bill pointed out that the poles were always shifting :-)
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Olsen" <handywired@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BECEC8A3.EA04%handywired@earthlink.net...
> The right has a swirling, ever-changing lack of a true philosophy,
indicative of a lack of moral compass
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Olsen" <handywired@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BECEC8A3.EA04%handywired@earthlink.net...
> The right has a swirling, ever-changing lack of a true philosophy,
indicative of a lack of moral compass
#762
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> > Our nation was damaged badly by the 9/11 terrorists ... but far more
> > damage has been done by the current administration.
> Without wishing to minimise the loss of the people who died at the hands
of
> the --------- scum, you lost 2300 odd Americans and one building. I don't
> think that counts as "badly damaging" a nation of 260,000,000 Americans
and
> lots of buildings. After all, 25,000 Americans get shot by other Americans
> each yet and nearly 50,000 get killed driving a car (1/2 of which dont
wear
> seatbelts). We lost over 2000 people to the --------- IRA (largely funded
by
> American citizens with delusions of the old country), and I've been at the
> train station when their bombs went off ; its scary but part of life - the
> last thing you need is massive media hysteria or talking about "badly
> damaged".
Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
as the lies pile up.
We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
__
Steve
..
#763
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> > Our nation was damaged badly by the 9/11 terrorists ... but far more
> > damage has been done by the current administration.
> Without wishing to minimise the loss of the people who died at the hands
of
> the --------- scum, you lost 2300 odd Americans and one building. I don't
> think that counts as "badly damaging" a nation of 260,000,000 Americans
and
> lots of buildings. After all, 25,000 Americans get shot by other Americans
> each yet and nearly 50,000 get killed driving a car (1/2 of which dont
wear
> seatbelts). We lost over 2000 people to the --------- IRA (largely funded
by
> American citizens with delusions of the old country), and I've been at the
> train station when their bombs went off ; its scary but part of life - the
> last thing you need is massive media hysteria or talking about "badly
> damaged".
Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
as the lies pile up.
We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
__
Steve
..
#764
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> > Our nation was damaged badly by the 9/11 terrorists ... but far more
> > damage has been done by the current administration.
> Without wishing to minimise the loss of the people who died at the hands
of
> the --------- scum, you lost 2300 odd Americans and one building. I don't
> think that counts as "badly damaging" a nation of 260,000,000 Americans
and
> lots of buildings. After all, 25,000 Americans get shot by other Americans
> each yet and nearly 50,000 get killed driving a car (1/2 of which dont
wear
> seatbelts). We lost over 2000 people to the --------- IRA (largely funded
by
> American citizens with delusions of the old country), and I've been at the
> train station when their bombs went off ; its scary but part of life - the
> last thing you need is massive media hysteria or talking about "badly
> damaged".
Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
as the lies pile up.
We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
__
Steve
..
#765
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> > Our nation was damaged badly by the 9/11 terrorists ... but far more
> > damage has been done by the current administration.
> Without wishing to minimise the loss of the people who died at the hands
of
> the --------- scum, you lost 2300 odd Americans and one building. I don't
> think that counts as "badly damaging" a nation of 260,000,000 Americans
and
> lots of buildings. After all, 25,000 Americans get shot by other Americans
> each yet and nearly 50,000 get killed driving a car (1/2 of which dont
wear
> seatbelts). We lost over 2000 people to the --------- IRA (largely funded
by
> American citizens with delusions of the old country), and I've been at the
> train station when their bombs went off ; its scary but part of life - the
> last thing you need is massive media hysteria or talking about "badly
> damaged".
Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
as the lies pile up.
We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
__
Steve
..
#766
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well, normally I don't get in to these discussions, but since some of the
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
#767
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well, normally I don't get in to these discussions, but since some of the
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
#768
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well, normally I don't get in to these discussions, but since some of the
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
#769
Guest
Posts: n/a
![Default](https://www.jeepscanada.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Well, normally I don't get in to these discussions, but since some of the
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
things I've read here have flipped a switch with me, I guess I need to make
a few comments.
First off, my mother and aunt belong to a support group that gather supplies
and certain items that the soldiers in Iraq are really lacking. BTW, one of
the things they request the most is phone cards, so if anyone feels like
supporting the troops over there, find a group like this and sponsor a phone
card or two rather than buying those magnet ribbons to stick on your
vehicle. Those do no good whatsoever for the troops.
I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the US being in Iraq
because of why we said we were going there, but we are there. Obviously
there were bad things going on there with all the munitions and chemical
related things that were found, but no WMD like was originally said.
My mother and aunt communicate with several of the soldiers via email, and I
believe a web forum, but that I am not sure of. Anyway several of the
soldiers who have come home and seen what the media is portraying in Iraq
have been outraged as well as hurt emotionally. These men and women are over
there risking their lives for the good of the people there, and yet the
media would rather just show the details on the latest car bombing or
whatever. According to them, the media is truly misrepresenting all the good
that the US has done there and most media would rather show all the crap
that is still going on. The soldiers say there have been dramatic
improvements in the conditions for the Iraqi people, and for the most part
they are extremely grateful.
For those who think that Iraq was a paradise before the USA went in there,
just remember that a lot of stuff went on that no one ever saw, just like it
does in the US or anywhere else for that matter. What is seen on the
outside, especially through the media in the Middle East, is grossly
selective, just as it was during the early parts of the invasion. When
someone says that women get raped, or people get tortured, they don't
necessarily mean it happens to everyone, but obviously it was going on
there. Saddam and his sons did not have torture chambers just to make for
good conversation. Also, large supplies of chemicals, etc. were found in
schools, churches and hospitals. Is that something that a child, or anyone
for that matter, be exposed to? Let us not forget the genocide against the
Kurds as well. If Saddam was so great, he wouldn't have done all this crap.
Also, look at how he lived, while people who lived in plain view of one of
several of his multi million dollar palaces lived in conditions that most
animals would shy away from. There was enough money there to make things a
lot better for the Iraqis, but that would have taken away some of the solid
gold trinkets that Saddam and his family felt they had to have, or maybe
they would have had to have one less palace. Overall, the man was an
evildoer and overall the Iraqis are much better off without him in power.
Chris
#770
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Well, can't disagree that the financial markets were disrupted, and being a
global economy, that hit the rest of the world too. Wasn't aware that there
were 7 buildings there, admittedly.
I didn't address the second part of your assertion "but far more damage has
been done by the current administration" because as I haven't been to the US
recently, my opinion wouldn't count for much ; also it's too big a topic to
debate (especially off topic) meaningfully. Come over here and we can
debate it over a beer.
As for Iraq, (I'll state my opinion but I won't debate it), I think that was
more a case of GW finishing off his dad's business rather than having
anything to do with terror ; look to Saudi for that. I do believe that it
was the right thing to do (and that GB senior shouldn't have left it
unfinished in the first place). Whether or not WMDs existed is irrelevent
as it was still worth doing, and I don't expect politicians to tell me the
truth anyhow.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:v_iqe.2380$751.1319@newssvr30.news.prodigy.co m...
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> > "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
> Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
> in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
> been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
> I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
> stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
> that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
> issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
> the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
> longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
> as the lies pile up.
>
> We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
> basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
> of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
> biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
> financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
> was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
> bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
> instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
>
> BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
> __
> Steve
> .
>
>
>
global economy, that hit the rest of the world too. Wasn't aware that there
were 7 buildings there, admittedly.
I didn't address the second part of your assertion "but far more damage has
been done by the current administration" because as I haven't been to the US
recently, my opinion wouldn't count for much ; also it's too big a topic to
debate (especially off topic) meaningfully. Come over here and we can
debate it over a beer.
As for Iraq, (I'll state my opinion but I won't debate it), I think that was
more a case of GW finishing off his dad's business rather than having
anything to do with terror ; look to Saudi for that. I do believe that it
was the right thing to do (and that GB senior shouldn't have left it
unfinished in the first place). Whether or not WMDs existed is irrelevent
as it was still worth doing, and I don't expect politicians to tell me the
truth anyhow.
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:v_iqe.2380$751.1319@newssvr30.news.prodigy.co m...
>
> "Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
> news:Vtbqe.48156$G8.25794@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> > "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:Vraqe.2334$751.107@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com ...
> Thanks for the reality check, Dave... but 'badly damaged' is
> in the estimation of those damaged. If you belive you've
> been whupped up on, then it's de facto true, de jure or not.
> I'll notice you didn't address the second part of my assertion...
> stepping carefully, are we? Well, I can *damn sure* assert
> that the entire country has stepped carefully around these
> issues... for the longest time (long enough to get embroiled)
> the press, the left, and the populace was cowed... but no
> longer. "You're either with us, or agin' us" no longer washes
> as the lies pile up.
>
> We took a pretty big economic hit from 9/11... the country
> basically shut down for a week. We lost 25 million square feet
> of the most prime commercial real estate in the country's
> biggest city... lots of comm infrastructure was destroyed,
> financial markets disrupted. Perhaps the biggest thing lost
> was our innocence... but this in no way diminishes the
> bottom-line damage done. Would that it had stopped there,
> instead of leading the country by the nose into Iraq.
>
> BTW, there were *seven* buildings in the WTC plaza, Dave...
> __
> Steve
> .
>
>
>