134a Refrigerant
#151
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Jeff, just a FYI for you and the group on R 12.
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
#152
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Jeff, just a FYI for you and the group on R 12.
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
#153
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Jeff, just a FYI for you and the group on R 12.
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
I think you are mistaken about it being illegal. R 12 is ILLEGAL to
manufacture, not use. The Montreal Protocal dictates that R 12 can be
used, just not manufactured. And when all of the current supplies are used
up, thats it. Unfortunately for the USA, third world countries like mexico
are exempt from those rules. It is legal to manufacture R 12 in Mexico.
Thats why it's smuggled across the border. Its still legal to use, just no
make here or import. And it is legal to buy it on the open market. Its a
huge business for reclaim companies to recondition recovered refrigerant R
12, and resell it. Just some info to keep everyone on the right track.
Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> I hadn't heard that there was any problem with making R134, and I am
>>> surprised that anybody is reporting trouble finding it.
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> R12 is cheaper to produce than 134. It's pretty non-toxic too, which can't
>> be said for 134. Political creatures have made 12 expensive.
>
>It doesn't matter that it is cheaper to make, it is essentially illegal to
>use in the USA. R12 eats the ozone layer, or whatever, and is a banned
>substance. It also does not play well with others in the neighborhood, R134
>for example. If your system is designed to run on R134, it won't work right
>on R12 anyway, and if you want to convert your factory R12 system back to
>R12 after retrofitting it to R134, then it will be costly. You can't buy R12
>on the open market, so you'll have to find a crook that will sell it to you,
>or pay to evacuate your system and refill it. You are not going to top off a
>low R134 system with R12, if for no other reason than the fittings are
>different sizes.
--
Robb
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com
#154
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Volcanic eruptions do emit hydrogen chloride. But they also spew
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
#155
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Volcanic eruptions do emit hydrogen chloride. But they also spew
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Volcanic eruptions do emit hydrogen chloride. But they also spew
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
#157
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Volcanic eruptions do emit hydrogen chloride. But they also spew
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
out huge amounts of water vapor. Hydrogen chloride dissolves in water.
Most of the chlorine from an eruption never reaches the high
stratosphere where the ozone layer is, because it washes down in rain.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Lon wrote:
>
> Aerosols, carbon dioxide, sulphates, etc. but no known volcano appears
> to either currently be or ever have spewed flourocarbons.
#158
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#159
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
#160
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Dave Milne" <jeep@_nospam_milne.info> wrote in message
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
news:TfEoe.45712$G8.29587@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> I'm sure volcanoes will feel responsible and penitent if we start
> starving...
> It's like throwing litter - just because a place is untidy, that doesn't
> give us an excuse to make it worse. It's part of treading lightly in my
> book.
but there is _no_ scientific evidence of refrigerant causing the depletion
of the ozone. in fact, the atomic weight of chlorine is heavier than air
making it nearly impossible for it to ever reach the ozone anyway. it all
boils down to money. when duponts patent expired on 12, suddenly it was
deemed "bad" for the environment.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com