F. Robert Falbo

On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:10:23 -0600, Jerry McG wrote:

> Without one they're as gutless as a stone.

You're a bit confused. A Diesel has fantastic low-end torque, which is
where you'd normally want it in off-road use. Oh, I forgot... they're so
gutless that almost every 18 wheeler uses one.

> Whoopie, clogged injectors,

Never had one in 135K miles. I replaced my injector tips at 125K, and
they were all good enough to go another 125K, but I'd already bought the
new ones 3 months prior so I changed them and kept the old ones for spares.

> ...gelled fuel,

Only happened once, at -30F, and my car didn't stop,...it just ran at idle
until it warmed up enough to melt the wax... the local station had used
straight #2 fuel instead of blended diesel.

> ...burned out glow plugs,

I think I had one bad glow plug in 13 years... wow.

> ...won't start below 30 degrees F unless plugged into house current.

That just shows that you don't much about day to day diesel driving. I
drove mine every day, even in -30F weather. Mine had a built-in 400W
heatplug that I used at home once the weather got below 0F, but I had no
AC at work (outside parking lot) and mine never failed to start.

> Back in my VW days customers near the Mexican border would buy
> fuel over there becaus eit was about $.20 a gallon. There was so much
> sulphur in it the stuff would take out the rings in about 20k miles.

Sulfuric acid will eat ANY engine.

> Some econmy car! People paid thousands over sticker to get the stupid
> things, then they depreciated like a meteor.

Yeah, Mercedes Benz has a terrible resale value.... NOT.

> In the mean time they had
> to put up with the things rattling so bad the dash assys would shake
> loose, the list is too long.

There you go again, comparing tin-can economy cars to everything else.
Most people who rode in my car were amazed how smooth it drove, and how
fast it went.

> I don't care if Benz $#!ts a golden egg with this 320 CDI, you'll never
> get Americans to buy diesels again in large numbers.

Get Gasoline up to $3/Gal and people will flock to Diesels.

-bob-

bllsht

In message <40bb2509_2@nntp2.nac.net>, "Peter Parker" wrote:

>In article <40BA6256.79512E9F@***.net>,
>L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
>>Hi Dave,
>> Because the diesel won't get out of it's own way, if it's normally
>>aspirated. Put the same two grand into your TJ, for three hundred
>>horsepower, of course you don't have to, you already blow every diesel
>>into the weeds.
>
>Who cares. CJ, YJ, TJ, are boxes on wheels. They are not performance
>vehicles and this arguement is really silly.

If you're saying folks who drive them don't want performance, you're being
really silly. I see a lot of complaints here about these vehicles with 4
cylinder engines being gutless, and many useless "mods" to make them better. A
diesel will be worse.

>
>
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think you can't buy a modern diesel without a turbo now - if its
>>> optional I bet its old !
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

bllsht

In message <40bb2509_2@nntp2.nac.net>, "Peter Parker" wrote:

>In article <40BA6256.79512E9F@***.net>,
>L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
>>Hi Dave,
>> Because the diesel won't get out of it's own way, if it's normally
>>aspirated. Put the same two grand into your TJ, for three hundred
>>horsepower, of course you don't have to, you already blow every diesel
>>into the weeds.
>
>Who cares. CJ, YJ, TJ, are boxes on wheels. They are not performance
>vehicles and this arguement is really silly.

If you're saying folks who drive them don't want performance, you're being
really silly. I see a lot of complaints here about these vehicles with 4
cylinder engines being gutless, and many useless "mods" to make them better. A
diesel will be worse.

>
>
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think you can't buy a modern diesel without a turbo now - if its
>>> optional I bet its old !
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

bllsht

In message <40bb2509_2@nntp2.nac.net>, "Peter Parker" wrote:

>In article <40BA6256.79512E9F@***.net>,
>L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
>>Hi Dave,
>> Because the diesel won't get out of it's own way, if it's normally
>>aspirated. Put the same two grand into your TJ, for three hundred
>>horsepower, of course you don't have to, you already blow every diesel
>>into the weeds.
>
>Who cares. CJ, YJ, TJ, are boxes on wheels. They are not performance
>vehicles and this arguement is really silly.

If you're saying folks who drive them don't want performance, you're being
really silly. I see a lot of complaints here about these vehicles with 4
cylinder engines being gutless, and many useless "mods" to make them better. A
diesel will be worse.

>
>
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think you can't buy a modern diesel without a turbo now - if its
>>> optional I bet its old !
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

bllsht

In message <40bb2509_2@nntp2.nac.net>, "Peter Parker" wrote:

>In article <40BA6256.79512E9F@***.net>,
>L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
>>Hi Dave,
>> Because the diesel won't get out of it's own way, if it's normally
>>aspirated. Put the same two grand into your TJ, for three hundred
>>horsepower, of course you don't have to, you already blow every diesel
>>into the weeds.
>
>Who cares. CJ, YJ, TJ, are boxes on wheels. They are not performance
>vehicles and this arguement is really silly.

If you're saying folks who drive them don't want performance, you're being
really silly. I see a lot of complaints here about these vehicles with 4
cylinder engines being gutless, and many useless "mods" to make them better. A
diesel will be worse.

>
>
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>>Dave Milne wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think you can't buy a modern diesel without a turbo now - if its
>>> optional I bet its old !
>>>
>>> Dave Milne, Scotland
>>> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

Jerry McG

"F. Robert Falbo" <rfalbo1@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.31.15.40.58.902001@twcny.rr.com.. .
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:10:23 -0600, Jerry McG wrote:
>
> > Without one they're as gutless as a stone.
>
> You're a bit confused. A Diesel has fantastic low-end torque, which is
> where you'd normally want it in off-road use. Oh, I forgot... they're so
> gutless that almost every 18 wheeler uses one.
>
> > Whoopie, clogged injectors,
>
> Never had one in 135K miles. I replaced my injector tips at 125K, and
> they were all good enough to go another 125K, but I'd already bought the
> new ones 3 months prior so I changed them and kept the old ones for
spares.
>
> > ...gelled fuel,
>
> Only happened once, at -30F, and my car didn't stop,...it just ran at idle
> until it warmed up enough to melt the wax... the local station had used
> straight #2 fuel instead of blended diesel.
>
> > ...burned out glow plugs,
>
> I think I had one bad glow plug in 13 years... wow.
>
> > ...won't start below 30 degrees F unless plugged into house current.
>
> That just shows that you don't much about day to day diesel driving. I
> drove mine every day, even in -30F weather. Mine had a built-in 400W
> heatplug that I used at home once the weather got below 0F, but I had no
> AC at work (outside parking lot) and mine never failed to start.
>
> > Back in my VW days customers near the Mexican border would buy
> > fuel over there becaus eit was about $.20 a gallon. There was so much
> > sulphur in it the stuff would take out the rings in about 20k miles.
>
> Sulfuric acid will eat ANY engine.
>
> > Some econmy car! People paid thousands over sticker to get the stupid
> > things, then they depreciated like a meteor.
>
> Yeah, Mercedes Benz has a terrible resale value.... NOT.
>
> > In the mean time they had
> > to put up with the things rattling so bad the dash assys would shake
> > loose, the list is too long.
>
> There you go again, comparing tin-can economy cars to everything else.
> Most people who rode in my car were amazed how smooth it drove, and how
> fast it went.
>
> > I don't care if Benz $#!ts a golden egg with this 320 CDI, you'll never
> > get Americans to buy diesels again in large numbers.
>
> Get Gasoline up to $3/Gal and people will flock to Diesels.
>
> -bob-

This was precisely the argument used by marketing types at GM, VW, Nissan et
al in the late '70's, when the effective price of fuel (adj'd for inflation)
was far higher than it is today. By 1982 everyone realized gas was still
relatively cheap and that diesels sucked. As a result the auto mfrs couldn't
give the damn things away. Until '99 MB always imported a few E & S Class
diesels to satisfy that lunatic fringe. They finally gave up, using the V6 &
lower jhoodline of the reskinned E-Class as an excuse to cut bait. (And, if
you think I'm full of $#!t on this, one of my best friends in the auto
industry is the Brand Manager for MB sedans in North America.)

The CDI may run like the clappers, but the reputation of diesels in the USA
was set in the outhouse years ago. Even the MBs, reputed to be long
distance, low maintenance runners are in reality total PITAs and are dogs on
the used market.
Large numebrs of North Americans in diesels? Not a CHANCE! A few nuts?
ALWAYS!

Jerry McG

"F. Robert Falbo" <rfalbo1@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.31.15.40.58.902001@twcny.rr.com.. .
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:10:23 -0600, Jerry McG wrote:
>
> > Without one they're as gutless as a stone.
>
> You're a bit confused. A Diesel has fantastic low-end torque, which is
> where you'd normally want it in off-road use. Oh, I forgot... they're so
> gutless that almost every 18 wheeler uses one.
>
> > Whoopie, clogged injectors,
>
> Never had one in 135K miles. I replaced my injector tips at 125K, and
> they were all good enough to go another 125K, but I'd already bought the
> new ones 3 months prior so I changed them and kept the old ones for
spares.
>
> > ...gelled fuel,
>
> Only happened once, at -30F, and my car didn't stop,...it just ran at idle
> until it warmed up enough to melt the wax... the local station had used
> straight #2 fuel instead of blended diesel.
>
> > ...burned out glow plugs,
>
> I think I had one bad glow plug in 13 years... wow.
>
> > ...won't start below 30 degrees F unless plugged into house current.
>
> That just shows that you don't much about day to day diesel driving. I
> drove mine every day, even in -30F weather. Mine had a built-in 400W
> heatplug that I used at home once the weather got below 0F, but I had no
> AC at work (outside parking lot) and mine never failed to start.
>
> > Back in my VW days customers near the Mexican border would buy
> > fuel over there becaus eit was about $.20 a gallon. There was so much
> > sulphur in it the stuff would take out the rings in about 20k miles.
>
> Sulfuric acid will eat ANY engine.
>
> > Some econmy car! People paid thousands over sticker to get the stupid
> > things, then they depreciated like a meteor.
>
> Yeah, Mercedes Benz has a terrible resale value.... NOT.
>
> > In the mean time they had
> > to put up with the things rattling so bad the dash assys would shake
> > loose, the list is too long.
>
> There you go again, comparing tin-can economy cars to everything else.
> Most people who rode in my car were amazed how smooth it drove, and how
> fast it went.
>
> > I don't care if Benz $#!ts a golden egg with this 320 CDI, you'll never
> > get Americans to buy diesels again in large numbers.
>
> Get Gasoline up to $3/Gal and people will flock to Diesels.
>
> -bob-

This was precisely the argument used by marketing types at GM, VW, Nissan et
al in the late '70's, when the effective price of fuel (adj'd for inflation)
was far higher than it is today. By 1982 everyone realized gas was still
relatively cheap and that diesels sucked. As a result the auto mfrs couldn't
give the damn things away. Until '99 MB always imported a few E & S Class
diesels to satisfy that lunatic fringe. They finally gave up, using the V6 &
lower jhoodline of the reskinned E-Class as an excuse to cut bait. (And, if
you think I'm full of $#!t on this, one of my best friends in the auto
industry is the Brand Manager for MB sedans in North America.)

The CDI may run like the clappers, but the reputation of diesels in the USA
was set in the outhouse years ago. Even the MBs, reputed to be long
distance, low maintenance runners are in reality total PITAs and are dogs on
the used market.
Large numebrs of North Americans in diesels? Not a CHANCE! A few nuts?
ALWAYS!

Jerry McG

"F. Robert Falbo" <rfalbo1@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.31.15.40.58.902001@twcny.rr.com.. .
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:10:23 -0600, Jerry McG wrote:
>
> > Without one they're as gutless as a stone.
>
> You're a bit confused. A Diesel has fantastic low-end torque, which is
> where you'd normally want it in off-road use. Oh, I forgot... they're so
> gutless that almost every 18 wheeler uses one.
>
> > Whoopie, clogged injectors,
>
> Never had one in 135K miles. I replaced my injector tips at 125K, and
> they were all good enough to go another 125K, but I'd already bought the
> new ones 3 months prior so I changed them and kept the old ones for
spares.
>
> > ...gelled fuel,
>
> Only happened once, at -30F, and my car didn't stop,...it just ran at idle
> until it warmed up enough to melt the wax... the local station had used
> straight #2 fuel instead of blended diesel.
>
> > ...burned out glow plugs,
>
> I think I had one bad glow plug in 13 years... wow.
>
> > ...won't start below 30 degrees F unless plugged into house current.
>
> That just shows that you don't much about day to day diesel driving. I
> drove mine every day, even in -30F weather. Mine had a built-in 400W
> heatplug that I used at home once the weather got below 0F, but I had no
> AC at work (outside parking lot) and mine never failed to start.
>
> > Back in my VW days customers near the Mexican border would buy
> > fuel over there becaus eit was about $.20 a gallon. There was so much
> > sulphur in it the stuff would take out the rings in about 20k miles.
>
> Sulfuric acid will eat ANY engine.
>
> > Some econmy car! People paid thousands over sticker to get the stupid
> > things, then they depreciated like a meteor.
>
> Yeah, Mercedes Benz has a terrible resale value.... NOT.
>
> > In the mean time they had
> > to put up with the things rattling so bad the dash assys would shake
> > loose, the list is too long.
>
> There you go again, comparing tin-can economy cars to everything else.
> Most people who rode in my car were amazed how smooth it drove, and how
> fast it went.
>
> > I don't care if Benz $#!ts a golden egg with this 320 CDI, you'll never
> > get Americans to buy diesels again in large numbers.
>
> Get Gasoline up to $3/Gal and people will flock to Diesels.
>
> -bob-

This was precisely the argument used by marketing types at GM, VW, Nissan et
al in the late '70's, when the effective price of fuel (adj'd for inflation)
was far higher than it is today. By 1982 everyone realized gas was still
relatively cheap and that diesels sucked. As a result the auto mfrs couldn't
give the damn things away. Until '99 MB always imported a few E & S Class
diesels to satisfy that lunatic fringe. They finally gave up, using the V6 &
lower jhoodline of the reskinned E-Class as an excuse to cut bait. (And, if
you think I'm full of $#!t on this, one of my best friends in the auto
industry is the Brand Manager for MB sedans in North America.)

The CDI may run like the clappers, but the reputation of diesels in the USA
was set in the outhouse years ago. Even the MBs, reputed to be long
distance, low maintenance runners are in reality total PITAs and are dogs on
the used market.
Large numebrs of North Americans in diesels? Not a CHANCE! A few nuts?
ALWAYS!

Jerry McG

"F. Robert Falbo" <rfalbo1@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.05.31.15.40.58.902001@twcny.rr.com.. .
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 16:10:23 -0600, Jerry McG wrote:
>
> > Without one they're as gutless as a stone.
>
> You're a bit confused. A Diesel has fantastic low-end torque, which is
> where you'd normally want it in off-road use. Oh, I forgot... they're so
> gutless that almost every 18 wheeler uses one.
>
> > Whoopie, clogged injectors,
>
> Never had one in 135K miles. I replaced my injector tips at 125K, and
> they were all good enough to go another 125K, but I'd already bought the
> new ones 3 months prior so I changed them and kept the old ones for
spares.
>
> > ...gelled fuel,
>
> Only happened once, at -30F, and my car didn't stop,...it just ran at idle
> until it warmed up enough to melt the wax... the local station had used
> straight #2 fuel instead of blended diesel.
>
> > ...burned out glow plugs,
>
> I think I had one bad glow plug in 13 years... wow.
>
> > ...won't start below 30 degrees F unless plugged into house current.
>
> That just shows that you don't much about day to day diesel driving. I
> drove mine every day, even in -30F weather. Mine had a built-in 400W
> heatplug that I used at home once the weather got below 0F, but I had no
> AC at work (outside parking lot) and mine never failed to start.
>
> > Back in my VW days customers near the Mexican border would buy
> > fuel over there becaus eit was about $.20 a gallon. There was so much
> > sulphur in it the stuff would take out the rings in about 20k miles.
>
> Sulfuric acid will eat ANY engine.
>
> > Some econmy car! People paid thousands over sticker to get the stupid
> > things, then they depreciated like a meteor.
>
> Yeah, Mercedes Benz has a terrible resale value.... NOT.
>
> > In the mean time they had
> > to put up with the things rattling so bad the dash assys would shake
> > loose, the list is too long.
>
> There you go again, comparing tin-can economy cars to everything else.
> Most people who rode in my car were amazed how smooth it drove, and how
> fast it went.
>
> > I don't care if Benz $#!ts a golden egg with this 320 CDI, you'll never
> > get Americans to buy diesels again in large numbers.
>
> Get Gasoline up to $3/Gal and people will flock to Diesels.
>
> -bob-

This was precisely the argument used by marketing types at GM, VW, Nissan et
al in the late '70's, when the effective price of fuel (adj'd for inflation)
was far higher than it is today. By 1982 everyone realized gas was still
relatively cheap and that diesels sucked. As a result the auto mfrs couldn't
give the damn things away. Until '99 MB always imported a few E & S Class
diesels to satisfy that lunatic fringe. They finally gave up, using the V6 &
lower jhoodline of the reskinned E-Class as an excuse to cut bait. (And, if
you think I'm full of $#!t on this, one of my best friends in the auto
industry is the Brand Manager for MB sedans in North America.)

The CDI may run like the clappers, but the reputation of diesels in the USA
was set in the outhouse years ago. Even the MBs, reputed to be long
distance, low maintenance runners are in reality total PITAs and are dogs on
the used market.
Large numebrs of North Americans in diesels? Not a CHANCE! A few nuts?
ALWAYS!

Peter Parker

In article <1kpmb0t3a2p3jqg1pk9579scd43f3ermkh@4ax.com>,
bllsht <nospam@dot.net> wrote:
>In message <40bb2509_2@nntp2.nac.net>, "Peter Parker" wrote:
>
>>In article <40BA6256.79512E9F@***.net>,
>>L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) ------ III <----------@***.net> wrote:
>>>Hi Dave,
>>> Because the diesel won't get out of it's own way, if it's normally
>>>aspirated. Put the same two grand into your TJ, for three hundred
>>>horsepower, of course you don't have to, you already blow every diesel
>>>into the weeds.
>>
>>Who cares. CJ, YJ, TJ, are boxes on wheels. They are not performance
>>vehicles and this arguement is really silly.
>
>If you're saying folks who drive them don't want performance, you're being
>really silly. I see a lot of complaints here about these vehicles with 4
>cylinder engines being gutless, and many useless "mods" to make them better. A
>diesel will be worse.

Bull! The 4cyl is not gutless for 4 wheeling as so many have posted before.
Why all of a sudden a selective memory and now a need for speed to look like
an *** in a built up CJ, YJ, TJ with huge tires going 80+ MPH on the highway?

Just because this is a diesel thread?


Hypocrite!!!!!


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