twaldron

That's what I needed to hear! ;) Thanks, Jerry!!

Jerry Bransford wrote:

> Tommy, of course you caught this but instead of lengthening your
> non-existent adjustable lower arms, shorten your upper arms by the same
> number of turns. I was at about 3.5 degrees before and 3 turns brought my
> caster up to where I needed it.
>
> And the tech was correct that the driveshaft has priority but he was
> clueless on limiting the Caster angle to only 2.5 degrees since the Caster
> can usually be increased well beyond that, to around 5.5 to 6 degrees,
> before the pinion angle becomes excessive for a 4 or 4.5" lift.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> N6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
> news:kriAc.9246$ey.3907@fed1read06...
>
>>Tommy, Caster angle isn't super critical but 2.5 degrees is clearly way
>>under what it needs. I would try four turns of your control arms
>>(lengthening the lower arms) and see how it feels. Just do the same
>
> number
>
>>of turns on each arm and it'll work fine. :)
>>
>>Jerry
>>--
>>Jerry Bransford
>>To email, remove 'me' from my email address
>>N6TAY, PP-ASEL
>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>
>>"twaldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message
>>news:aIhAc.1298$Q77.901@newssvr23.news.prodigy.c om...
>>
>>>Right. However the last tech wouldn't go past 2.5deg. saying that the
>>>DShaft has priority. I'm still not happy with the steering. Can I
>>>ballpark the caster measurement? I know that the last alignment gave me
>>>roughly 2.5 deg., so to get to 5.5 deg. I'll have to shorten the RE
>>>upper control arms, but I'm not sure how far. I don't have the equipt.
>>>to measure caster, obviously, but another $80 alignment isn't that
>>>appealing either. Since I know where it is now (2.5), can I shorten each
>>>arm, equally, to acheive a better caster angle and how many turns would
>>>I attempt?
>>>
>>>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>7 degrees is the factory specified Caster angle for a Wrangler. If
>
> you
>
>>try
>>
>>>>to keep 7 degrees with 4.5" of lift, you do get front driveshaft
>>
>>vibration
>>
>>>>due to excessive pinion angle. But 5.5 to 6 degrees is entirely
>>
>>appropriate
>>
>>>>and works well. It's the standard recommended Caster angle when you
>
> get
>
>>to
>>
>>>>4-5" of lift which won't cause any front driveshaft
>
> problems/vibrations
>
>>but
>>
>>>>it does give you enough Caster angle to give good steering qualities.
>>
>>My
>>
>>>>own TJ is set to nearly six degrees and that worked very well with my
>>
>>5.5"
>>
>>>>of suspension lift. It's when you try to get too close to the factory
>
> 7
>
>>>>degree angle after installing a tall lift when the front pinion angle
>>>>becomes excessive for the front driveshaft and u-joint.
>>>>
>>>>Jerry
>>>>--
>>>>Jerry Bransford
>>>>To email, remove 'me' from my email address
>>>>N6TAY, PP-ASEL
>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>>>>
>>>>"twaldron" <thomas@OBVIOUSrubicons.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:p_9Ac.1264$Q77.115@newssvr23.news.prodigy .com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How do you get -5.5 deg. without putting your front propeller shaft
>
> out
>
>>>>>of line? Mine is at -2.5 on a 4.5" lift.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Caster angle shouldn't even be below 5.5 degrees, let alone zero.
>
> For
>
>>a
>>
>>>>2"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>lift, Caster should actually be between 6 and 7 degrees of Caster
>>
>>angle.
>>
>>>>>>Are you thinking toe-in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>_____________________________________________ ______________
>>>>>tw
>>>>>
>>>>>03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
>>>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>>>
>>>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>>>
>>>>>Pronunciation: 'jEp
>>>>>Function: noun
>>>>>Date: 1940
>>>>>
>>>>>Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>>>>A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
>>>>>1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
>>>>>World War II.
>>>>>
>>>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>>>_____________________________________________ ______________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>_______________________________________________ ____________
>>>tw
>>>
>>>03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
>>>01 XJ Sport
>>>
>>>There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>>>-- Dave Barry
>>>
>>>Pronunciation: 'jEp
>>>Function: noun
>>>Date: 1940
>>>
>>>Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
>>>A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
>>>1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
>>>World War II.
>>>
>>>(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
>>>_______________________________________________ ____________
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Jerry Newton

Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.


Jerry


"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:L49Ac.75402$My6.7568@fed1read05...
> Caster angle shouldn't even be below 5.5 degrees, let alone zero. For a
2"
> lift, Caster should actually be between 6 and 7 degrees of Caster angle.
> Are you thinking toe-in?
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> N6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40d119e1$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Did the alignment dude give you a printout? What is your total caster?
> If
> > you are near zero, or below zero, that is a problem. Otherwise, a
> steering
> > stabilizer could be in your future.
> >
> >
> > Juice
> >
> >
> > "Trust5280" <trust5280@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040616232216.16562.00000083@mb-m22.aol.com...
> > > 1999 Tj with a 2" Tera Flex lift. After a Moab trip terrible death
> wobble
> > > started at about 45 MPH. Replaced the track bar. Could feel wobble
> trying
> > to
> > > start in steering wheel. After about 20 miles death wobble came back
big
> > time.
> > > Swithched from 30" stock tires to offset 32" MTR's. Wobble stopped.
> > However, I
> > > can still feel the wobble trying to get started at 45 MPH. One of
these
> > days
> > > the wobble will win again. Alignment has been checked. Four wheel shop
> > says
> > > they can't find any reason. Track bar is in good shape.
> > >
> > > Any opinion on whether changing to Tera Flex swing arms will help by
> > reducing
> > > any looseness in suspension.
> > >
> > > It is a puzzlement.
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.


Jerry


"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:L49Ac.75402$My6.7568@fed1read05...
> Caster angle shouldn't even be below 5.5 degrees, let alone zero. For a
2"
> lift, Caster should actually be between 6 and 7 degrees of Caster angle.
> Are you thinking toe-in?
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> N6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40d119e1$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Did the alignment dude give you a printout? What is your total caster?
> If
> > you are near zero, or below zero, that is a problem. Otherwise, a
> steering
> > stabilizer could be in your future.
> >
> >
> > Juice
> >
> >
> > "Trust5280" <trust5280@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040616232216.16562.00000083@mb-m22.aol.com...
> > > 1999 Tj with a 2" Tera Flex lift. After a Moab trip terrible death
> wobble
> > > started at about 45 MPH. Replaced the track bar. Could feel wobble
> trying
> > to
> > > start in steering wheel. After about 20 miles death wobble came back
big
> > time.
> > > Swithched from 30" stock tires to offset 32" MTR's. Wobble stopped.
> > However, I
> > > can still feel the wobble trying to get started at 45 MPH. One of
these
> > days
> > > the wobble will win again. Alignment has been checked. Four wheel shop
> > says
> > > they can't find any reason. Track bar is in good shape.
> > >
> > > Any opinion on whether changing to Tera Flex swing arms will help by
> > reducing
> > > any looseness in suspension.
> > >
> > > It is a puzzlement.
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.


Jerry


"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:L49Ac.75402$My6.7568@fed1read05...
> Caster angle shouldn't even be below 5.5 degrees, let alone zero. For a
2"
> lift, Caster should actually be between 6 and 7 degrees of Caster angle.
> Are you thinking toe-in?
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> N6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40d119e1$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Did the alignment dude give you a printout? What is your total caster?
> If
> > you are near zero, or below zero, that is a problem. Otherwise, a
> steering
> > stabilizer could be in your future.
> >
> >
> > Juice
> >
> >
> > "Trust5280" <trust5280@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040616232216.16562.00000083@mb-m22.aol.com...
> > > 1999 Tj with a 2" Tera Flex lift. After a Moab trip terrible death
> wobble
> > > started at about 45 MPH. Replaced the track bar. Could feel wobble
> trying
> > to
> > > start in steering wheel. After about 20 miles death wobble came back
big
> > time.
> > > Swithched from 30" stock tires to offset 32" MTR's. Wobble stopped.
> > However, I
> > > can still feel the wobble trying to get started at 45 MPH. One of
these
> > days
> > > the wobble will win again. Alignment has been checked. Four wheel shop
> > says
> > > they can't find any reason. Track bar is in good shape.
> > >
> > > Any opinion on whether changing to Tera Flex swing arms will help by
> > reducing
> > > any looseness in suspension.
> > >
> > > It is a puzzlement.
> >
> >
>
>

Jerry Newton

Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.


Jerry


"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:L49Ac.75402$My6.7568@fed1read05...
> Caster angle shouldn't even be below 5.5 degrees, let alone zero. For a
2"
> lift, Caster should actually be between 6 and 7 degrees of Caster angle.
> Are you thinking toe-in?
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> N6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Jerry Newton" <leaveme@lone.net> wrote in message
> news:40d119e1$1_1@newspeer2.tds.net...
> > Did the alignment dude give you a printout? What is your total caster?
> If
> > you are near zero, or below zero, that is a problem. Otherwise, a
> steering
> > stabilizer could be in your future.
> >
> >
> > Juice
> >
> >
> > "Trust5280" <trust5280@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040616232216.16562.00000083@mb-m22.aol.com...
> > > 1999 Tj with a 2" Tera Flex lift. After a Moab trip terrible death
> wobble
> > > started at about 45 MPH. Replaced the track bar. Could feel wobble
> trying
> > to
> > > start in steering wheel. After about 20 miles death wobble came back
big
> > time.
> > > Swithched from 30" stock tires to offset 32" MTR's. Wobble stopped.
> > However, I
> > > can still feel the wobble trying to get started at 45 MPH. One of
these
> > days
> > > the wobble will win again. Alignment has been checked. Four wheel shop
> > says
> > > they can't find any reason. Track bar is in good shape.
> > >
> > > Any opinion on whether changing to Tera Flex swing arms will help by
> > reducing
> > > any looseness in suspension.
> > >
> > > It is a puzzlement.
> >
> >
>
>

twaldron

Since someone is keeping you on your toes, your use of the words "plus"
and "positive" contradict themselves. "keep the caster on the plus side
of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive caster.."

Does positive caster rake the spindles forward at the bottom like a
bike's forks, or is that negative caster?

Jerry Newton wrote:

> Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
> caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
> caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.
>
>
> Jerry

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

Since someone is keeping you on your toes, your use of the words "plus"
and "positive" contradict themselves. "keep the caster on the plus side
of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive caster.."

Does positive caster rake the spindles forward at the bottom like a
bike's forks, or is that negative caster?

Jerry Newton wrote:

> Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
> caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
> caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.
>
>
> Jerry

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

Since someone is keeping you on your toes, your use of the words "plus"
and "positive" contradict themselves. "keep the caster on the plus side
of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive caster.."

Does positive caster rake the spindles forward at the bottom like a
bike's forks, or is that negative caster?

Jerry Newton wrote:

> Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
> caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
> caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.
>
>
> Jerry

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

Since someone is keeping you on your toes, your use of the words "plus"
and "positive" contradict themselves. "keep the caster on the plus side
of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive caster.."

Does positive caster rake the spindles forward at the bottom like a
bike's forks, or is that negative caster?

Jerry Newton wrote:

> Point taken. I guess I wasn't very explanatory. My point was to keep the
> caster on the plus side of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive
> caster works against good driveability. Thanks for keepin me on my toes.
>
>
> Jerry

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

Positive is like a bicycle: http://www.----------.com/alignment.jpg
http://www.----------.com/CJalignment.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

twaldron wrote:
>
> Since someone is keeping you on your toes, your use of the words "plus"
> and "positive" contradict themselves. "keep the caster on the plus side
> of zero, anything that you do to reduce positive caster.."
>
> Does positive caster rake the spindles forward at the bottom like a
> bike's forks, or is that negative caster?