Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/13/04 18:19, Jerry Newton's monkeys randomly typed:
> There has been talk for years about how the automakers should "give" the
> diagnostic information and schematics to anyone that asks for them.

Do franchised dealers get this information for free, perhaps due to
some oddball quirk of warranty law, or does the dealer also have to
pay for this stuff?

One could make the argument that the dealer pays for this material in
the form of the money that changes hands between them and the maker...

I have some difficulty grasping the logic that the manufacturer should
offer this information for free, although I can agree that it should
be available, including service bulletins, for reasonable cost.

I've run into two types of independent shops that tend to be
consistently better than dealers.

The first is the specialty shop, and in every case I've run into,
it was owned and operated by a very senior mechanic and/or service
manager from a dealer. Have even been referred to these shops
by the local dealers for particularly oddball problems. e.g. the
Volvo specialist down in Torrance Ca, owned by Peter, a former
mktg manager of Volvo, who has the original Car of the Year trophy
for the turbovolvo on his desk.

The other is the specialty high tech shop. These are typically
owned and operated by folks with masters degrees in mech engineering
[or better] who run the shop for the love of it. And tend to be
cleaner than the typical hospital surgery. Tend to specialize in
blueprinting, etc. etc. and are almost always higher priced than
the local dealers.

Then there are the in betweens, which in my experience have varied
from really surprisingly good [oddly enough all of those level have
had good relationships with the local dealers] to just flat out
incompetent and occasionally ripoff. Not surprisingly, most of
this bottom feeder class tend to badmouth the local dealers.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/13/04 18:19, Jerry Newton's monkeys randomly typed:
> There has been talk for years about how the automakers should "give" the
> diagnostic information and schematics to anyone that asks for them.

Do franchised dealers get this information for free, perhaps due to
some oddball quirk of warranty law, or does the dealer also have to
pay for this stuff?

One could make the argument that the dealer pays for this material in
the form of the money that changes hands between them and the maker...

I have some difficulty grasping the logic that the manufacturer should
offer this information for free, although I can agree that it should
be available, including service bulletins, for reasonable cost.

I've run into two types of independent shops that tend to be
consistently better than dealers.

The first is the specialty shop, and in every case I've run into,
it was owned and operated by a very senior mechanic and/or service
manager from a dealer. Have even been referred to these shops
by the local dealers for particularly oddball problems. e.g. the
Volvo specialist down in Torrance Ca, owned by Peter, a former
mktg manager of Volvo, who has the original Car of the Year trophy
for the turbovolvo on his desk.

The other is the specialty high tech shop. These are typically
owned and operated by folks with masters degrees in mech engineering
[or better] who run the shop for the love of it. And tend to be
cleaner than the typical hospital surgery. Tend to specialize in
blueprinting, etc. etc. and are almost always higher priced than
the local dealers.

Then there are the in betweens, which in my experience have varied
from really surprisingly good [oddly enough all of those level have
had good relationships with the local dealers] to just flat out
incompetent and occasionally ripoff. Not surprisingly, most of
this bottom feeder class tend to badmouth the local dealers.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

About $4200 per month,
http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfi...nts/ASO_NP.pdf
Entry-level sanitation truck drivers in Los Angeles earn $38,169,
http://65.167.130.114/updates/010202up.htm

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
<COLLIDE13@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16895-4004FB1B-1@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...
> What's a San Francisco Sanit Worker make?
> What's the age limit for hire?
>

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

About $4200 per month,
http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfi...nts/ASO_NP.pdf
Entry-level sanitation truck drivers in Los Angeles earn $38,169,
http://65.167.130.114/updates/010202up.htm

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
<COLLIDE13@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16895-4004FB1B-1@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...
> What's a San Francisco Sanit Worker make?
> What's the age limit for hire?
>

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

About $4200 per month,
http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfi...nts/ASO_NP.pdf
Entry-level sanitation truck drivers in Los Angeles earn $38,169,
http://65.167.130.114/updates/010202up.htm

--
Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
<COLLIDE13@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16895-4004FB1B-1@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net...
> What's a San Francisco Sanit Worker make?
> What's the age limit for hire?
>

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/14/04 08:24, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:

>
> The mechanic's take home salary is only a small portion of what you're
> paying for when you go to the shop.

Yeah, one of the things is the generally deeper pockets of a large
shop or dealer. A small shop may be nice, but the owner may not
have the financial flexibility to go the extra mile when something
inevitably gets screwed up. A dealer will usually have those deeper
pockets, plus a reputation to worry about, and more likely to
take or partially take the loss in a marginal situation. At least
it seems to work that way for me, but then I try not to be rude
to folks who get near my brakes on a regular basis. But then
am not bashful about asking the service manager for a referral
positive or negative] to an independent for oddball or unusual
stuff.

But then the local dealer offers coupons such that oil and filter
changes as well as lubes are cheaper than the Oil Ape places...
so why risk some doofus damaging the vehicle that won't have the
skills or finances to fix it.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/14/04 08:24, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:

>
> The mechanic's take home salary is only a small portion of what you're
> paying for when you go to the shop.

Yeah, one of the things is the generally deeper pockets of a large
shop or dealer. A small shop may be nice, but the owner may not
have the financial flexibility to go the extra mile when something
inevitably gets screwed up. A dealer will usually have those deeper
pockets, plus a reputation to worry about, and more likely to
take or partially take the loss in a marginal situation. At least
it seems to work that way for me, but then I try not to be rude
to folks who get near my brakes on a regular basis. But then
am not bashful about asking the service manager for a referral
positive or negative] to an independent for oddball or unusual
stuff.

But then the local dealer offers coupons such that oil and filter
changes as well as lubes are cheaper than the Oil Ape places...
so why risk some doofus damaging the vehicle that won't have the
skills or finances to fix it.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/14/04 08:24, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:

>
> The mechanic's take home salary is only a small portion of what you're
> paying for when you go to the shop.

Yeah, one of the things is the generally deeper pockets of a large
shop or dealer. A small shop may be nice, but the owner may not
have the financial flexibility to go the extra mile when something
inevitably gets screwed up. A dealer will usually have those deeper
pockets, plus a reputation to worry about, and more likely to
take or partially take the loss in a marginal situation. At least
it seems to work that way for me, but then I try not to be rude
to folks who get near my brakes on a regular basis. But then
am not bashful about asking the service manager for a referral
positive or negative] to an independent for oddball or unusual
stuff.

But then the local dealer offers coupons such that oil and filter
changes as well as lubes are cheaper than the Oil Ape places...
so why risk some doofus damaging the vehicle that won't have the
skills or finances to fix it.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/13/04 18:13, Jerry Newton's monkeys randomly typed:

>
> Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with which
> to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just three
> examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip of the
> iceberg.

Hah, try picking up one of the new California enhanced smog law
test stations that can handle dealer grade volume.

>
> Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago. Perhaps Lon
> can refresh our memories.

Well, everyones but yours, where you kept insisting I said something
that I never would... >:-) I happen to get along with my dealers
quite nicely. Helps in difficult situations, helps in trading in
the old car, etc. etc. Plus my cousin was a huge dealer [which
says not much].

Only had one dealer I'd never go back to. Something about having
your wheel fall off at 50 mph on a California freeway just sorta
grinds your knickers into a knot a bit more than an independent
shop just busting a head bolt.

Re: What does the Mechanic get
 

Roughly 1/13/04 18:13, Jerry Newton's monkeys randomly typed:

>
> Refrigerant recovery machines are about $5000. A brake lathe that is
> capable of turning out rotors with less that .001 lateral runout while
> turning 50 rotors per day is about $10,000. A handheld scan tool with which
> to diagnose and reprogram your car is about $3000. These are just three
> examples of shop equipment. We need two recovery machines, four brake
> lathes, and five scan tools. You do the math. This is just the tip of the
> iceberg.

Hah, try picking up one of the new California enhanced smog law
test stations that can handle dealer grade volume.

>
> Seems there was a thread on this topic just a month or so ago. Perhaps Lon
> can refresh our memories.

Well, everyones but yours, where you kept insisting I said something
that I never would... >:-) I happen to get along with my dealers
quite nicely. Helps in difficult situations, helps in trading in
the old car, etc. etc. Plus my cousin was a huge dealer [which
says not much].

Only had one dealer I'd never go back to. Something about having
your wheel fall off at 50 mph on a California freeway just sorta
grinds your knickers into a knot a bit more than an independent
shop just busting a head bolt.