Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
06-25-2006, 12:20 AM
#141
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
Now Bill.... you know as well as I do that engines can run perfectly well on
100% alcohol.... it just takes twice as much of it.
In Brazil most of the cars run on alcohol
"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:449E0AE2.F8B9E28B@***.net...
> Yup, like ethanol still needs fifteen percent gasoline to be run in
> new cars especially made for it. Along with dollar for dollar tax
> subsidies.
> Sure we make cooking oils that may be used for small motors and
> sewing machines, out a lot plant products, buy my point is not since the
> old castorbean has any oil been made SAE capable. Like any oil that
> mixes with water would be disastrous to the corrosion properties in an
> modern engine
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Actually, it appears a new fundamental particle may have been discovered
>> recently. Which has butkus to do with the fairly simple chemistry of
>> making the innards of oils from whatever source happens to be available
>> and cost effective. Could be made from natural gas, greasebush, coal,
>> peanuts, or soylent green--just happens to be most cost effective to
>> crack crude to the raw constituents then paste em back together with a
>> few metallic compounds that didn't come from oil.
100% alcohol.... it just takes twice as much of it.
In Brazil most of the cars run on alcohol
"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:449E0AE2.F8B9E28B@***.net...
> Yup, like ethanol still needs fifteen percent gasoline to be run in
> new cars especially made for it. Along with dollar for dollar tax
> subsidies.
> Sure we make cooking oils that may be used for small motors and
> sewing machines, out a lot plant products, buy my point is not since the
> old castorbean has any oil been made SAE capable. Like any oil that
> mixes with water would be disastrous to the corrosion properties in an
> modern engine
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Actually, it appears a new fundamental particle may have been discovered
>> recently. Which has butkus to do with the fairly simple chemistry of
>> making the innards of oils from whatever source happens to be available
>> and cost effective. Could be made from natural gas, greasebush, coal,
>> peanuts, or soylent green--just happens to be most cost effective to
>> crack crude to the raw constituents then paste em back together with a
>> few metallic compounds that didn't come from oil.
06-25-2006, 12:20 AM
#142
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
Now Bill.... you know as well as I do that engines can run perfectly well on
100% alcohol.... it just takes twice as much of it.
In Brazil most of the cars run on alcohol
"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:449E0AE2.F8B9E28B@***.net...
> Yup, like ethanol still needs fifteen percent gasoline to be run in
> new cars especially made for it. Along with dollar for dollar tax
> subsidies.
> Sure we make cooking oils that may be used for small motors and
> sewing machines, out a lot plant products, buy my point is not since the
> old castorbean has any oil been made SAE capable. Like any oil that
> mixes with water would be disastrous to the corrosion properties in an
> modern engine
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Actually, it appears a new fundamental particle may have been discovered
>> recently. Which has butkus to do with the fairly simple chemistry of
>> making the innards of oils from whatever source happens to be available
>> and cost effective. Could be made from natural gas, greasebush, coal,
>> peanuts, or soylent green--just happens to be most cost effective to
>> crack crude to the raw constituents then paste em back together with a
>> few metallic compounds that didn't come from oil.
100% alcohol.... it just takes twice as much of it.
In Brazil most of the cars run on alcohol
"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:449E0AE2.F8B9E28B@***.net...
> Yup, like ethanol still needs fifteen percent gasoline to be run in
> new cars especially made for it. Along with dollar for dollar tax
> subsidies.
> Sure we make cooking oils that may be used for small motors and
> sewing machines, out a lot plant products, buy my point is not since the
> old castorbean has any oil been made SAE capable. Like any oil that
> mixes with water would be disastrous to the corrosion properties in an
> modern engine
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Lon wrote:
>>
>> Actually, it appears a new fundamental particle may have been discovered
>> recently. Which has butkus to do with the fairly simple chemistry of
>> making the innards of oils from whatever source happens to be available
>> and cost effective. Could be made from natural gas, greasebush, coal,
>> peanuts, or soylent green--just happens to be most cost effective to
>> crack crude to the raw constituents then paste em back together with a
>> few metallic compounds that didn't come from oil.
06-25-2006, 12:37 AM
#143
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
"poly" simply means "many" like many petroleum products like
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
06-25-2006, 12:37 AM
#144
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
"poly" simply means "many" like many petroleum products like
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
06-25-2006, 12:37 AM
#145
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
"poly" simply means "many" like many petroleum products like
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
polyvinyl chloride:
http://images.google.com/images?svnu...vinyl+chloride
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very
> pure base oil with excellent properties. By
>
> starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces,
> you can pretty much guarantee that every
>
> molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the
> properties are exactly what you designed in,
>
> not compromised by impurities from dead cockroach shells or whatever.
> Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to
>
> the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about
> 1990. The original synthetics were
>
> designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their
> high- performance turbo-charged
>
> radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.
>
> One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical
> called an olefin, and make new molecules by
>
> attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary
> advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base
>
> oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so
> it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly
>
> as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.
>
> Until about 2000, these PAO base oils had an enormous advantage over mineral
> base oils in low temperature
>
> performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the
> oil from forming acids. However, modern
>
> group-III oils can nearly match the performance of PAOs at about half the
> price. Because of this, PAO based oils are
>
> rapidly disappearing. There are new processes being investigated which may
> significantly cut the cost of producing
>
> PAOs, and make them an important component of oil again.
>
> Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is
> called Group V. Esters start life as fatty
>
> acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters,
> diesters, and polyesters. Your
>
> vegetarian girlfriend should love that. Group V base stocks are the most
> expensive of all to produce. However, the
>
> esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an
> ester base oil all by itself will do a very
>
> decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about
> making a superior oil will usually mix
>
> some Group V oils into their base stock.
06-25-2006, 12:41 AM
#146
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
All American Automatic Transmission Fluid except Ford ATF, was made
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
06-25-2006, 12:41 AM
#147
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
All American Automatic Transmission Fluid except Ford ATF, was made
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
06-25-2006, 12:41 AM
#148
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
All American Automatic Transmission Fluid except Ford ATF, was made
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
from whale oil until '73 when it was outlawed.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Animal fats would be considered a poor source of lubricating oil.
06-25-2006, 12:58 AM
#149
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
What do you think the "base" molecule is in synthetic oils? It came
from that same 44 gallon barrel of crude all oil refinery products come
from: http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Most use a base oil supplied by Shell if I remember correctly but some does
> not..
>
> See my previous post.
from that same 44 gallon barrel of crude all oil refinery products come
from: http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Most use a base oil supplied by Shell if I remember correctly but some does
> not..
>
> See my previous post.
06-25-2006, 12:58 AM
#150
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Uh oh, Here We Go Again!
What do you think the "base" molecule is in synthetic oils? It came
from that same 44 gallon barrel of crude all oil refinery products come
from: http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Most use a base oil supplied by Shell if I remember correctly but some does
> not..
>
> See my previous post.
from that same 44 gallon barrel of crude all oil refinery products come
from: http://www.energyinst.org.uk/educati...as/chemist.htm
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
billy ray wrote:
>
> Most use a base oil supplied by Shell if I remember correctly but some does
> not..
>
> See my previous post.