TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
07-29-2004, 04:48 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
be much appreciated.
Background:
I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
different from each other…
My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
as anything in the summer.
Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
"fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
scary way?
Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
10 years.
I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
"need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
practical needs I have.
Thank you in advance for any help!
DJ
(P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
issues… I just don't want that much truck)
feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
be much appreciated.
Background:
I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
different from each other…
My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
as anything in the summer.
Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
"fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
scary way?
Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
10 years.
I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
"need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
practical needs I have.
Thank you in advance for any help!
DJ
(P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
issues… I just don't want that much truck)
07-29-2004, 05:15 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
I don't think you need a TJ either.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
07-29-2004, 05:15 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
I don't think you need a TJ either.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
07-29-2004, 05:15 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
I don't think you need a TJ either.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
07-29-2004, 05:15 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
I don't think you need a TJ either.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
DJ wrote:
>
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids – can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other…
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow – No more drifting
> issues… I just don't want that much truck)
07-29-2004, 05:30 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TJ for Icy Roads, Deep Snow and Daily Driver?
I live in NE Ohio, in what us locals call the snow belt, and I drive a '03
TJ with the 2.4L 4 cyl engine. I've driven through drifting snow, on the
passenger side snow was up to the fender, drivers side only a foot or so.
the TJ did not have a problem. the next day my wife complained of a
vibration while on the highway, I told her to stop at a car wash and spray
the snow out of the inside of the rim, which fixed the problem. Most of the
time I drive through less dramatic conditions, but for the occasional time I
love having the TJ. it has great ground clearance, all the components are
simple (KISS concept).
On ice it becomes a bit of a challenge, the short wheel base makes
spin outs a good possibility. I have to admit that my '00 S-10 w/ the 4.3L
v6 4x4 is much better on the ice, but doesn't have nearly the ground
clearance, the weight of the engine and lack of weight in the back, when it
starts to slide, I just point the front tires where I want to go and hit the
gas. When I first switched to the Jeep I tried this maneuver pulling into a
drive and slid into the curb (when I hit the gas it just kept pushing me
forward). In my truck I would have been afraid of a broken tie rod, or
worse, but the jeep merely popped the bead off the tire and after a tire
change not a problem. through slushy conditions, often the roads I drive
on, never a problem, the jeep just keeps plowing on.
"DJ" <psychonomic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google.c om...
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids - can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other.
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow - No more drifting
> issues. I just don't want that much truck)
TJ with the 2.4L 4 cyl engine. I've driven through drifting snow, on the
passenger side snow was up to the fender, drivers side only a foot or so.
the TJ did not have a problem. the next day my wife complained of a
vibration while on the highway, I told her to stop at a car wash and spray
the snow out of the inside of the rim, which fixed the problem. Most of the
time I drive through less dramatic conditions, but for the occasional time I
love having the TJ. it has great ground clearance, all the components are
simple (KISS concept).
On ice it becomes a bit of a challenge, the short wheel base makes
spin outs a good possibility. I have to admit that my '00 S-10 w/ the 4.3L
v6 4x4 is much better on the ice, but doesn't have nearly the ground
clearance, the weight of the engine and lack of weight in the back, when it
starts to slide, I just point the front tires where I want to go and hit the
gas. When I first switched to the Jeep I tried this maneuver pulling into a
drive and slid into the curb (when I hit the gas it just kept pushing me
forward). In my truck I would have been afraid of a broken tie rod, or
worse, but the jeep merely popped the bead off the tire and after a tire
change not a problem. through slushy conditions, often the roads I drive
on, never a problem, the jeep just keeps plowing on.
"DJ" <psychonomic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:51eaac29.0407291248.4c57673b@posting.google.c om...
> Time to start thinking about a new vehicle and I could use some
> feedback from people who have lived with a TJ as a daily driver in an
> area that gets real snow. Any feedback you fine folks can give will
> be much appreciated.
>
>
> Background:
>
> I live in a rural part of central New York (USA) and we get a fair
> amount of snow in the winter (10+ feet a winter). I live at the top
> of a hill (roads up to my house in the 8-10% grade range), have a 150
> foot gravel driveway, and we get a fair amount of wind causing
> significant drifting (e.g., from plowed to drifted shut within 90
> minutes). Current vehicles include a '99 Subaru SUS Limited (basically
> a legacy sedan body on Outback running gear) and an '03 Chrysler T&C
> Limited with AWD (I've got a wife and two young kids - can ya tell?).
>
> The SUS is what I drive the most and 90% of my driving is with me
> alone in the car (if the whole family is headed out we take the
> minivan). Most of my driving is to and from work (less than 5 miles)
> and around town. I am a volunteer EMT and there are times when I have
> to get to the station (QUICKLY if possible) independent of weather,
> and my job also requires me to go to work independent of weather.
>
> There two vehicles that have caught my eye and I can only have one:
> the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT and the Jeep TJ Sport with LSD in the
> rear, dual tops, wheel/tire package, etc. I know, I know, VERY
> different from each other.
>
> My current vehicles, the subbie and the awd T&C, are both very good in
> the snow and ice. However, both have been stuck in my driveway due to
> the same problem: The driveway gets cleared, it drifts over, and in
> trying to get out (for work or an ambulance call) the vehicle "floats"
> on the snow leaving little to no contact between the wheels and the
> frozen gravel driveway. Cursing, digging and pushing result. Now, I
> admit that this doesn't happen that often, but when it does, and it
> does multiple times each winter, I REALLY wish I had more ground
> clearance. Also, the SUS's engine is anemic. While the car is a
> blast to drive on slick roads (as long as things are not too deep),
> there is no real "fun factor" in the SUS on dry roads and it is boring
> as anything in the summer.
>
> Where does this leave me and why post here? Well, I am torn between
> the new subbie 2.5 GT sedan (which now has a 250 HP turbo engine) and
> the TJ. I am finding myself drawn to TJs for reasons I cannot quite
> explain. I want my next ride to be fun in some way, but it also has
> to serve my day-to-day driving needs. The GT sedan will have a bit of
> "fun" in it given it has almost 90 more HP than my SUS. On the other
> hand, it will be even lower to the ground than my current subbie, and
> that can't be good for November to March. Having owned Subbies
> before, I know it will be dependable. The TJ? That's why I am here:
>
> How deep can the snow be for a stock TJ (with winter tires, of course)
> to still be able to make it through? On Edmunds the subbie outback
> chassis is listed as having a ground clearance that isn't that far off
> from a stock TJ. On my subbie the entire undercarriage is at about
> the same height and makes a perfect raft on which to float on the
> snow. I presume the TJ actually has much less of the vehicle at the
> clearance height and that it will take much more snow to slow it down,
> but I would appreciate reports from those who have experience with
> this as if the TJ doesn't win here, I can't really justify getting it.
>
> How is the TJ on snowy and icy roads? The Subaru and Chrysler AWD
> systems have been excellent and I have never dealt with a "real" 4x4
> before. My understanding is that the Jeep is basically a rear wheel
> drive vehicle until one shifts into 4 Hi or 4 Lo, which you can't do
> until you are already on slippery surfaces. The subbie tends to
> under-steer in low traction situations (unless I purposely work it to
> get the back end loose, which I like to do in empty parking lots), am
> I correct in assuming the TJ tends to over-steer? In a fun way or
> scary way?
>
> Clearly a Jeep is a Jeep. That is, I understand I'd be giving up the
> heated seats and mirrors, memory seats, etc. that I currently have and
> could have on the '05 GT. Anyone make the move to a TJ and miss these
> things? Right now it sounds OK to me as we'll still have all the
> electronic crap in the minivan, plus the top comes off the JEEP!
> However, looking at and riding in a vehicle for short times during the
> shopping process is different than getting into one everyday for 5 to
> 10 years.
>
> I know a lot of the above is blasphemy in this group (I'm not planning
> on climbing rock strewn mountains, though there are some state forest
> 4x4 roads around here I'd like to try), and that in most ways I don't
> "need" a Jeep. I just might, however, WANT one, and I'd like to go
> into it at least knowing what the vehicle can do when it comes to the
> practical needs I have.
>
> Thank you in advance for any help!
>
> DJ
>
> (P.S. The other option is a F250 4x4 with a plow - No more drifting
> issues. I just don't want that much truck)
