Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
depending on how you look at it. First the results:

To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down. In
fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't smell
any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.

Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the air
leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the cylinder
and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up then
it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than likely
the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
they are:

#1 = 9%
#2 = 7%
#3 = 11%

Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex so I
could only get through the first three.

Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that is
first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles and
second, I warmed the engine before testing.

Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and couldn't
detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the cylinder
was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control test I
was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose so I
know the stethoscope works well.

At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the chamber
when the valve opens.


Any comments or suggestions?


Thanks,

Bill

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Bill,

Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring. This
is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may have
had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think that
by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but like
I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person. I
think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while and
see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>
> To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down. In
> fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
smell
> any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>
> Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
air
> leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the cylinder
> and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
then
> it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
likely
> the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> they are:
>
> #1 = 9%
> #2 = 7%
> #3 = 11%
>
> Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex so
I
> could only get through the first three.
>
> Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
is
> first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles and
> second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>
> Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
couldn't
> detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
cylinder
> was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control test
I
> was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose so
I
> know the stethoscope works well.
>
> At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
chamber
> when the valve opens.
>
>
> Any comments or suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Bill,

Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring. This
is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may have
had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think that
by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but like
I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person. I
think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while and
see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>
> To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down. In
> fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
smell
> any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>
> Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
air
> leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the cylinder
> and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
then
> it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
likely
> the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> they are:
>
> #1 = 9%
> #2 = 7%
> #3 = 11%
>
> Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex so
I
> could only get through the first three.
>
> Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
is
> first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles and
> second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>
> Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
couldn't
> detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
cylinder
> was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control test
I
> was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose so
I
> know the stethoscope works well.
>
> At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
chamber
> when the valve opens.
>
>
> Any comments or suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Bill,

Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring. This
is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may have
had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think that
by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but like
I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person. I
think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while and
see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.

Chris

"William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>
> To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down. In
> fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
smell
> any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>
> Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
air
> leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the cylinder
> and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
then
> it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
likely
> the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> they are:
>
> #1 = 9%
> #2 = 7%
> #3 = 11%
>
> Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex so
I
> could only get through the first three.
>
> Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
is
> first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles and
> second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>
> Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
couldn't
> detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
cylinder
> was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control test
I
> was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose so
I
> know the stethoscope works well.
>
> At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
chamber
> when the valve opens.
>
>
> Any comments or suggestions?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Thanks for the reply Chris.

An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.


After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?

I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
for that cylinder and the valves were closed.


Comments?




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bill,
>
> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
This
> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
have
> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
that
> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
like
> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
I
> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
and
> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
> >
> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
In
> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
> smell
> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
> >
> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
> air
> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
cylinder
> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
> then
> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
> likely
> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> > they are:
> >
> > #1 = 9%
> > #2 = 7%
> > #3 = 11%
> >
> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
so
> I
> > could only get through the first three.
> >
> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
> is
> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
and
> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
> >
> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
> couldn't
> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
> cylinder
> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
test
> I
> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
so
> I
> > know the stethoscope works well.
> >
> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
> chamber
> > when the valve opens.
> >
> >
> > Any comments or suggestions?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Thanks for the reply Chris.

An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.


After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?

I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
for that cylinder and the valves were closed.


Comments?




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bill,
>
> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
This
> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
have
> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
that
> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
like
> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
I
> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
and
> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
> >
> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
In
> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
> smell
> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
> >
> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
> air
> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
cylinder
> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
> then
> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
> likely
> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> > they are:
> >
> > #1 = 9%
> > #2 = 7%
> > #3 = 11%
> >
> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
so
> I
> > could only get through the first three.
> >
> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
> is
> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
and
> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
> >
> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
> couldn't
> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
> cylinder
> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
test
> I
> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
so
> I
> > know the stethoscope works well.
> >
> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
> chamber
> > when the valve opens.
> >
> >
> > Any comments or suggestions?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

Thanks for the reply Chris.

An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.


After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?

I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
for that cylinder and the valves were closed.


Comments?




"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bill,
>
> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
This
> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
have
> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
that
> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
like
> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
I
> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
and
> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>
> Chris
>
> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
> >
> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
In
> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
> smell
> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
> >
> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
> air
> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
cylinder
> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
> then
> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
> likely
> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
> > they are:
> >
> > #1 = 9%
> > #2 = 7%
> > #3 = 11%
> >
> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
so
> I
> > could only get through the first three.
> >
> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
> is
> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
and
> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
> >
> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
> couldn't
> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
> cylinder
> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
test
> I
> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
so
> I
> > know the stethoscope works well.
> >
> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
> chamber
> > when the valve opens.
> >
> >
> > Any comments or suggestions?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

In message <c0mfde$18p5e3$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Thanks for the reply Chris.
>
>An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
>put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
>injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
>advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
>was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
>specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.
>
>
>After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
>miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
>pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
>look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
>element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
>so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
>time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
>the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
>did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
>the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
>outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
>could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
>guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
>gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?
>
>I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
>at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
>time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
>for that cylinder and the valves were closed.
>
>
>Comments?

If it runs OK, and you don't have a cloud of blue smoke following you around,
drive the GD thing and find something else to worry about.

>
>
>
>
>"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
>news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Bill,
>>
>> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
>> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
>> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
>This
>> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
>have
>> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
>that
>> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
>> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
>> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
>> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
>> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
>> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
>like
>> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
>> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
>I
>> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
>and
>> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
>> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
>> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>> >
>> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
>In
>> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
>> smell
>> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>> >
>> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
>> air
>> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
>> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
>cylinder
>> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
>> then
>> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
>> likely
>> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
>> > they are:
>> >
>> > #1 = 9%
>> > #2 = 7%
>> > #3 = 11%
>> >
>> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
>so
>> I
>> > could only get through the first three.
>> >
>> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
>> is
>> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
>and
>> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>> >
>> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
>> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
>> couldn't
>> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
>> cylinder
>> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
>test
>> I
>> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
>so
>> I
>> > know the stethoscope works well.
>> >
>> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
>> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
>> chamber
>> > when the valve opens.
>> >
>> >
>> > Any comments or suggestions?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

In message <c0mfde$18p5e3$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Thanks for the reply Chris.
>
>An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
>put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
>injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
>advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
>was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
>specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.
>
>
>After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
>miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
>pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
>look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
>element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
>so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
>time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
>the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
>did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
>the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
>outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
>could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
>guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
>gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?
>
>I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
>at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
>time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
>for that cylinder and the valves were closed.
>
>
>Comments?

If it runs OK, and you don't have a cloud of blue smoke following you around,
drive the GD thing and find something else to worry about.

>
>
>
>
>"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
>news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Bill,
>>
>> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
>> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
>> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
>This
>> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
>have
>> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
>that
>> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
>> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
>> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
>> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
>> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
>> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
>like
>> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
>> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
>I
>> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
>and
>> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
>> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
>> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>> >
>> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
>In
>> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
>> smell
>> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>> >
>> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
>> air
>> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
>> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
>cylinder
>> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
>> then
>> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
>> likely
>> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
>> > they are:
>> >
>> > #1 = 9%
>> > #2 = 7%
>> > #3 = 11%
>> >
>> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
>so
>> I
>> > could only get through the first three.
>> >
>> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
>> is
>> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
>and
>> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>> >
>> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
>> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
>> couldn't
>> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
>> cylinder
>> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
>test
>> I
>> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
>so
>> I
>> > know the stethoscope works well.
>> >
>> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
>> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
>> chamber
>> > when the valve opens.
>> >
>> >
>> > Any comments or suggestions?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: Test Results, Mike Romain, Chris, all
 

In message <c0mfde$18p5e3$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de>, "William Oliveri"
wrote:

>Thanks for the reply Chris.
>
>An additional update. I took it today to JeepsRUs and paid Larie a fee to
>put it on the DRB II. He found no errors with regards to engine firing or
>injectors. All values were normal. In addition, he took out the 6 degree
>advance he previously put in when I was trying to get rid of what I thought
>was ping so now the MPI Kit is back to 14 degrees advance per stock MPI Kit
>specs. Now the engine runs even better but still have the oil problem.
>
>
>After I left JeepsRUs I drove it to the swap meet driving highway and city
>miles. I had put a set of fresh plugs in the night before so they were
>pretty clean as of this morning. When I arrived at the swap meet I took a
>look at #2. It looked ok, not fouled and just a touch of black around the
>element so I put it back in and walked around the swap meet for an hour or
>so. When I got back to the parked jeep I again took a look at #2. This
>time I saw fresh oil around the threads of the plug the heaviest being at
>the top most thread and on the washer that comes on spark plugs. Now, how
>did this oil get there? I checked to make sure it wasn't coming down from
>the valve cover into the spark plug hole and no, there was no oil on the
>outside of the head in this area. It couldn't have come up from the block,
>could it? The only thing I can think of is it's coming down from the valve
>guide and as it drips down and flows past the plug opening the warm/hot oil
>gets drawn up into the plug thread. Does this make sense?
>
>I wiped the plug clean and drove it back home and did the same test. Looked
>at when I got there and let it sit for an hour and looked at it again. This
>time I didn't see the oil but it could be per chance that I landed on TDC
>for that cylinder and the valves were closed.
>
>
>Comments?

If it runs OK, and you don't have a cloud of blue smoke following you around,
drive the GD thing and find something else to worry about.

>
>
>
>
>"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
>news:nFhXb.10055$fW.2835@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Bill,
>>
>> Again, this is shooting from the hip because we are trying to diagnose a
>> vehicle that we can't actually work on. I think I may have stated in a
>> previous post that you may have had a stuck or carboned up piston ring.
>This
>> is still a possibility based on your numbers. I'm thinking that you may
>have
>> had a valve slightly open on the first test, but not sure. I also think
>that
>> by the numbers you are getting on compression and leakdown test, that your
>> engine is in good shape as far as sealing the cylinders goes. This doesn't
>> mean that a valve guide may not be passing oil into the cylinder. If you
>> have verified that the injectors are not leaking or sticking open for some
>> reason, then I'm led to lean toward a possible sticky ring. There may be
>> some carbon buildup in the oil ring groove or something like that, but
>like
>> I said, this is a guess at best without actually seeing when and how much
>> the engine smokes, and also not being able to try a few things in person.
>I
>> think if it were my vehicle at this point, I would drive it for a while
>and
>> see if it clears up. It may if it is a carboned up ring.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> "William Oliveri" <wuji@bigvalley.net> wrote in message
>> news:c0k7l5$18c4k6$1@ID-193866.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > I completed additional tests tonight which cause me confusion or clarity
>> > depending on how you look at it. First the results:
>> >
>> > To Mike, the test on the fuel pressure after shut off did not go down.
>In
>> > fact it went up. I smelled for a gassy smell in the oil but couldn't
>> smell
>> > any. My nose is not that good though so that's not very accurate.
>> >
>> > Additional Leak Down test results. I decided to try to determine if the
>> air
>> > leak was with the rings or the valves so the theory was to test for leak
>> > down on the problem cylinder (#2) and then squirt some oil in the
>cylinder
>> > and turn it over a few times, then test again. If the numbers went up
>> then
>> > it would point to the rings and if there was no change then more than
>> likely
>> > the valves. What I got was totally different results from before. Here
>> > they are:
>> >
>> > #1 = 9%
>> > #2 = 7%
>> > #3 = 11%
>> >
>> > Numbers are rounded. Got too late to run the compressor in my complex
>so
>> I
>> > could only get through the first three.
>> >
>> > Variables. I did only two things different from the last tests and that
>> is
>> > first, I had added the BG 44K and have driven it about 10 to 15 miles
>and
>> > second, I warmed the engine before testing.
>> >
>> > Another test was to listen for air coming from the valve train or other
>> > places. I got a stethoscope and listened around various areas and
>> couldn't
>> > detect a sound of leaking air. The sound of the air going into the
>> cylinder
>> > was so noisy I wasn't able to detect any other sounds. For a control
>test
>> I
>> > was able to hear perfectly the air leak coming from my compressor hose
>so
>> I
>> > know the stethoscope works well.
>> >
>> > At this point I'm thinking my problem lies in the head. That oil is
>> > dripping down the valve guide when it sits or runs and goes into the
>> chamber
>> > when the valve opens.
>> >
>> >
>> > Any comments or suggestions?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>