Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:48:32 -0700, "Earle Horton"
<anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote:

>I have had refrigerant in the system in my 1989 Suburban for three and a
>half years now. I ascribe this to getting fed up with incompetent "air
>conditioning repair" shops, and replacing all the hoses, compressor, O-rings
>and refrigerant myself. I don't see how they can "reformulate" the molecule
>without renaming it, but after working at Microsoft I learned that you don't
>trust industry or government.

Yeah, I do the same thing. Replaced the compressor and reciever/drier
myself, too. Got the compressor from a well-reputed salvage yard, and
got a goody. 'Course, with mine being nearly 15 years old (since last
rebuilt), I figured most any I got would have been rebuilt since it
was. Love those old upright Yorks-they last forever!

Dan
>
>Earle
>
>"Hootowl" <ELN/zooo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:ggpjo25of6p29o1jt4m38u5fns570ci4mf@4ax.com.. .
>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:55:10 -0500, philthy <dbrider@cac.net> wrote:
>>
>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> >can you say petrochemicals buy any car paint lately?
>> >
>> >Outatime wrote:
>> >
>> >> Whilest stocking up on some 10w30 Mobil One at Wally World this
>> >> afternoon, I checked to see if they carried the new Valvoline ATF+4 as
>> >> well. To my surprise, I discovered that they now stock OEM Mopar ATF+4
>> >> quarts for $4.42. (I'm sure Valvoline actually produces this product
>> >> for DC and this is just rebadged, still, OEM ATF+4 is nice to find.)
>> >> Grab some while you can.
>> >>
>> >> Now, if WM's buyers would kindly source some OEM DC or Zerex G-05 and
>> >> some decent 13" wiper blades, I'd be a happy guy.
>> >>
>> >> I also noticed that R-134a has almost doubled in price since the
>summer.
>> >> I'm wondering if the Montreal Protocol and new US regs will drive the
>> >> price even higher before production stops altogether. Rumor has it
>that
>> >> CO2 is the replacement, though it may be a few years away from
>> >> production due to problems with the high operating pressures requried.
>> >> I have a couple of cases stashed away for a rainy day. I was also one
>> >> of those guys who had 4 cases of R-12 to sell when the price per can
>hit
>> >> $65.00 in eBay, and as I recall, I bought all 4 cases on sale for $.59
>> >> cents per can. Something to think about.
>>
>

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:48:32 -0700, "Earle Horton"
<anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote:

>I have had refrigerant in the system in my 1989 Suburban for three and a
>half years now. I ascribe this to getting fed up with incompetent "air
>conditioning repair" shops, and replacing all the hoses, compressor, O-rings
>and refrigerant myself. I don't see how they can "reformulate" the molecule
>without renaming it, but after working at Microsoft I learned that you don't
>trust industry or government.

Yeah, I do the same thing. Replaced the compressor and reciever/drier
myself, too. Got the compressor from a well-reputed salvage yard, and
got a goody. 'Course, with mine being nearly 15 years old (since last
rebuilt), I figured most any I got would have been rebuilt since it
was. Love those old upright Yorks-they last forever!

Dan
>
>Earle
>
>"Hootowl" <ELN/zooo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:ggpjo25of6p29o1jt4m38u5fns570ci4mf@4ax.com.. .
>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:55:10 -0500, philthy <dbrider@cac.net> wrote:
>>
>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> >can you say petrochemicals buy any car paint lately?
>> >
>> >Outatime wrote:
>> >
>> >> Whilest stocking up on some 10w30 Mobil One at Wally World this
>> >> afternoon, I checked to see if they carried the new Valvoline ATF+4 as
>> >> well. To my surprise, I discovered that they now stock OEM Mopar ATF+4
>> >> quarts for $4.42. (I'm sure Valvoline actually produces this product
>> >> for DC and this is just rebadged, still, OEM ATF+4 is nice to find.)
>> >> Grab some while you can.
>> >>
>> >> Now, if WM's buyers would kindly source some OEM DC or Zerex G-05 and
>> >> some decent 13" wiper blades, I'd be a happy guy.
>> >>
>> >> I also noticed that R-134a has almost doubled in price since the
>summer.
>> >> I'm wondering if the Montreal Protocol and new US regs will drive the
>> >> price even higher before production stops altogether. Rumor has it
>that
>> >> CO2 is the replacement, though it may be a few years away from
>> >> production due to problems with the high operating pressures requried.
>> >> I have a couple of cases stashed away for a rainy day. I was also one
>> >> of those guys who had 4 cases of R-12 to sell when the price per can
>hit
>> >> $65.00 in eBay, and as I recall, I bought all 4 cases on sale for $.59
>> >> cents per can. Something to think about.
>>
>

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:

>Hootowl wrote:
>
>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>
>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause changes.

I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).

My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
been caused by something else. I sure hope so.

Dan

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:

>Hootowl wrote:
>
>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>
>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause changes.

I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).

My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
been caused by something else. I sure hope so.

Dan

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:

>Hootowl wrote:
>
>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>
>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause changes.

I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).

My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
been caused by something else. I sure hope so.

Dan

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

Medical Inhaler Propellant Information:
http://www.solvay-fluor.com/chemical...34a_pharma_NEW


"Hootowl" <ELN/zooo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:09dso29uiqgnu042ucmsh149olj88jd08f@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Hootowl wrote:
>>
>>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>>
>>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause
>>changes.
>
> I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
> asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).
>
> My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
> Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
> or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
> been caused by something else. I sure hope so.
>
> Dan

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

Medical Inhaler Propellant Information:
http://www.solvay-fluor.com/chemical...34a_pharma_NEW


"Hootowl" <ELN/zooo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:09dso29uiqgnu042ucmsh149olj88jd08f@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Hootowl wrote:
>>
>>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>>
>>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause
>>changes.
>
> I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
> asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).
>
> My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
> Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
> or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
> been caused by something else. I sure hope so.
>
> Dan

Re: Surprising source for ATF+4
 

Medical Inhaler Propellant Information:
http://www.solvay-fluor.com/chemical...34a_pharma_NEW


"Hootowl" <ELN/zooo@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:09dso29uiqgnu042ucmsh149olj88jd08f@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:23:16 -0800, Outatime <user@example.net> wrote:
>
>>Hootowl wrote:
>>
>>> A commercial refrigeration tech friend of mine told me a few months
>>> ago that 134a was reformulated a while back. It's now a larger
>>> molecule that will actually stay in the system unless you have a real
>>> leak. PAG oil and high-density hoses are no longer necessary, either.
>>> It's been roughly two years since my '77 Cherokee's converted a/c
>>> system (with salvage yard compressor) has had a measurable drop in
>>> pressure. The hoses have splices, and the two sections on the
>>> evaporator core are original (almost 30 years old). Those 2 1/2 spare
>>> cans are still sitting on my closet shelf. :)
>>
>>That must have been a BIG change to no longer require PAG; 134a is
>>extremely corrosive. I wonder if they also lessened the toxicity?
>>Morbidity studies I've seen indicated that a fatal dose can be inhaled
>>within 30 seconds inside a closed automobile should an evap core breach
>>occur. You'd think that the liability from this alone would cause
>>changes.
>
> I hope so, because 134a is what they are using in the new CFC-free
> asthma inhalers now (that insurance won't cover).
>
> My friend also told me that all eight techs who converted the first
> Arkansas plant to 134a from R-12 got cancer within a year and a half
> or so. But I haven't heard of any other such cases, so it could have
> been caused by something else. I sure hope so.
>
> Dan