Old Crow

Lon wrote:
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

The contacts in the solonoid will tend to pit and corrode to the point
where even if it clicks, it might not be making internal contact.
Try putting a test light on the small wire to the solonoid and see if
you're getting power down there when you turn the key. If you *are*
getting power, but the starter doesn't do anything, change the
solonoid.


--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC-P "Pearl"
'95 Wrangler YJ
TOMKAT,DOF#51,SENS, BS#133, MAMBM, SLOB#13, DH#2

Old Crow

Lon wrote:
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

The contacts in the solonoid will tend to pit and corrode to the point
where even if it clicks, it might not be making internal contact.
Try putting a test light on the small wire to the solonoid and see if
you're getting power down there when you turn the key. If you *are*
getting power, but the starter doesn't do anything, change the
solonoid.


--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC-P "Pearl"
'95 Wrangler YJ
TOMKAT,DOF#51,SENS, BS#133, MAMBM, SLOB#13, DH#2

Old Crow

Lon wrote:
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

The contacts in the solonoid will tend to pit and corrode to the point
where even if it clicks, it might not be making internal contact.
Try putting a test light on the small wire to the solonoid and see if
you're getting power down there when you turn the key. If you *are*
getting power, but the starter doesn't do anything, change the
solonoid.


--
Old Crow
'82 FLTC-P "Pearl"
'95 Wrangler YJ
TOMKAT,DOF#51,SENS, BS#133, MAMBM, SLOB#13, DH#2

Mike Romain

I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
the battery cable on the relay.

And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.

Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Lon wrote:
>
> Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
>
> Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
>
> Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
>
> Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
>
> Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
>
> Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> even in the cold.
>
> Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
>
> Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> prolonged cranking.
>
> Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> relay there as well.
>
> CURRENTLY it is starting.
>
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

Mike Romain

I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
the battery cable on the relay.

And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.

Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Lon wrote:
>
> Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
>
> Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
>
> Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
>
> Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
>
> Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
>
> Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> even in the cold.
>
> Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
>
> Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> prolonged cranking.
>
> Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> relay there as well.
>
> CURRENTLY it is starting.
>
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

Mike Romain

I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
the battery cable on the relay.

And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.

Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Lon wrote:
>
> Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
>
> Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
>
> Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
>
> Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
>
> Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
>
> Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> even in the cold.
>
> Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
>
> Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> prolonged cranking.
>
> Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> relay there as well.
>
> CURRENTLY it is starting.
>
> The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> starter.
>
> Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> this?
>
> AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> that you get no click whatever?

Earle Horton

This thread reminds me of what happened to me, twice, buying used GM
products. Once off the dealer's lot, the vehicles refused to start. A trip
under the front of the vehicle revealed hammer or wrench marks, all over the
starter housing. Cleaning the battery cables, both ends, and in one case a
new battery, fixed the problem "permanently". I am still driving the second
vehicle, five or six years later, hammer marks and all.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43735E2E.78822279@sympatico.ca...
> I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
> dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
> battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
> the battery cable on the relay.
>
> And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
> one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.
>
> Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
> itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
> the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
> can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
> >
> > Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> > ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> > Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
> >
> > Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> > this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
> >
> > Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
> >
> > Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> > somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> > [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> > and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> > it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
> >
> > Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
> >
> > Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> > new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> > skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> > even in the cold.
> >
> > Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> > with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
> >
> > Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> > Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> > prolonged cranking.
> >
> > Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> > side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> > relay there as well.
> >
> > CURRENTLY it is starting.
> >
> > The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> > of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> > starter.
> >
> > Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> > this?
> >
> > AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> > that you get no click whatever?

Earle Horton

This thread reminds me of what happened to me, twice, buying used GM
products. Once off the dealer's lot, the vehicles refused to start. A trip
under the front of the vehicle revealed hammer or wrench marks, all over the
starter housing. Cleaning the battery cables, both ends, and in one case a
new battery, fixed the problem "permanently". I am still driving the second
vehicle, five or six years later, hammer marks and all.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43735E2E.78822279@sympatico.ca...
> I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
> dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
> battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
> the battery cable on the relay.
>
> And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
> one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.
>
> Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
> itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
> the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
> can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
> >
> > Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> > ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> > Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
> >
> > Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> > this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
> >
> > Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
> >
> > Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> > somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> > [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> > and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> > it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
> >
> > Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
> >
> > Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> > new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> > skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> > even in the cold.
> >
> > Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> > with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
> >
> > Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> > Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> > prolonged cranking.
> >
> > Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> > side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> > relay there as well.
> >
> > CURRENTLY it is starting.
> >
> > The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> > of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> > starter.
> >
> > Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> > this?
> >
> > AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> > that you get no click whatever?

Earle Horton

This thread reminds me of what happened to me, twice, buying used GM
products. Once off the dealer's lot, the vehicles refused to start. A trip
under the front of the vehicle revealed hammer or wrench marks, all over the
starter housing. Cleaning the battery cables, both ends, and in one case a
new battery, fixed the problem "permanently". I am still driving the second
vehicle, five or six years later, hammer marks and all.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:43735E2E.78822279@sympatico.ca...
> I have seen that happen when the 'other' end of the battery cable was
> dirty, the end on the engine block or when the other end of the other
> battery cable was dirty, the positive cable onto the starter relay or
> the battery cable on the relay.
>
> And I have seen that happen when the ground to the body is dirty, the
> one from the battery to the fender or firewall I believe it is on a ZJ.
>
> Then the big stick option also is a good way to find out if the starter
> itself is stuck. Just so you know you can get replacement brushes for
> the starter for around ten bucks and a rebuild kit for about $25.00. A
> can of WD40 is needed to clean the guts. Starters are an easy rebuild.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Lon wrote:
> >
> > Anyone had experience with a possibly sticking starter solenoid on a 95
> > ZJ 4.0 or similar. The starter is allegedly not the same as the
> > Wrangler, but may be the same as the Cherokee...
> >
> > Symptom: Turn on key. Battery voltage is measured at 12.4 volts at
> > this time, Digital Multimeter [Fluke]
> >
> > Turn key to start. Not a sound, not even a faint click.
> >
> > Putting the !@#$!@#$ thing on a flat tow truck and taking it across a
> > somewhat bumpy route to a shop, and the thing won't start right away
> > [again not a click] but on two occasions if you just turn the key off
> > and do it again, you may get one click followed by an immediate start or
> > it may just go ahead and start. Cranking speed is blisteringly fast.
> >
> > Alternator working great, checked twice by two different shops.
> >
> > Battery cables tight, clean. Battery is about 6 months old, but a brand
> > new DieHard SUV does exactly the same thing. Both batteries checked for
> > skin charge, but when the solenoid kicks in, the spin rate is very high
> > even in the cold.
> >
> > Checked the transmission park safety switch. What the heck a new one
> > with O ring is only eight bucks, swapped out.
> >
> > Damn thing did it again, refused to even click. Back to the shop.
> > Two attempts yielded clicks, 3rd attempt full spinning start, no
> > prolonged cranking.
> >
> > Found the fuel pump relay under the hood had a small crack along one
> > side, replaced it. What the heck they are cheap, replaced the starter
> > relay there as well.
> >
> > CURRENTLY it is starting.
> >
> > The shop loaned me an iron bar and said next time, try smiting the side
> > of the solenoid not too gently, and if that fixes it, they'll order me a
> > starter.
> >
> > Anything else other than a possible pinched wire somewhere that causes
> > this?
> >
> > AT 85000 miles on the original, do these solenoids tend to stick such
> > that you get no click whatever?