FrankW

Could be a slightly bent rim

Carl Saiyed wrote:

> My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old toyo
> 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking felt
> in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph. Braking
> was straight.
>
> I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt to
> diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more at
> the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match the
> GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping they
> were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
>
> I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size as the
> GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were added
> as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
>
> Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad shaking
> in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
>
> I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and had
> the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance" and were
> re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I changed
> anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
>
> The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to do with
> the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension problem, it
> would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> compensating for this somehow?
>
> The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the front and
> rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
>
> Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
>
>

FrankW

Could be a slightly bent rim

Carl Saiyed wrote:

> My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old toyo
> 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking felt
> in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph. Braking
> was straight.
>
> I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt to
> diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more at
> the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match the
> GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping they
> were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
>
> I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size as the
> GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were added
> as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
>
> Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad shaking
> in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
>
> I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and had
> the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance" and were
> re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I changed
> anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
>
> The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to do with
> the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension problem, it
> would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> compensating for this somehow?
>
> The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the front and
> rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
>
> Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
>
>

FrankW

Could be a slightly bent rim

Carl Saiyed wrote:

> My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old toyo
> 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking felt
> in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph. Braking
> was straight.
>
> I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt to
> diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more at
> the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match the
> GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping they
> were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
>
> I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size as the
> GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were added
> as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
>
> Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad shaking
> in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
>
> I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and had
> the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance" and were
> re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I changed
> anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
>
> The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to do with
> the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension problem, it
> would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> compensating for this somehow?
>
> The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the front and
> rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
>
> Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
>
>

Mike Romain

Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
I will look some more to see if I can find it again..

The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.

I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
it my fault period like they stated.

Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
reality.

Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
so maybe it is a subjective thing?

Mike

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> with space saver spares if this was the case.
> http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> -Brian
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> :
> : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> : 4x4.
> :
> : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> :
> : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> : vehicular homicide.
> :
> : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> : was found 'at fault'.
> :
> : Mike
> : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> :
> : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> : >
> : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> speed,
> : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> accelerating.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > carl
> : >
> : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> toyo
> : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> felt
> : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> : > Braking
> : > > was straight.
> : > >
> : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> to
> : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> at
> : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> the
> : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> they
> : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> : > >
> : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> as
> : > the
> : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> added
> : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> : > >
> : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> : > shaking
> : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> : > >
> : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> had
> : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> and
> : > were
> : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> changed
> : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> : > >
> : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> do
> : > with
> : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> problem,
> : > it
> : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> : > > compensating for this somehow?
> : > >
> : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> front
> : > and
> : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> : > >
> : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> : > >
> : > >

Mike Romain

Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
I will look some more to see if I can find it again..

The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.

I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
it my fault period like they stated.

Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
reality.

Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
so maybe it is a subjective thing?

Mike

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> with space saver spares if this was the case.
> http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> -Brian
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> :
> : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> : 4x4.
> :
> : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> :
> : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> : vehicular homicide.
> :
> : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> : was found 'at fault'.
> :
> : Mike
> : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> :
> : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> : >
> : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> speed,
> : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> accelerating.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > carl
> : >
> : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> toyo
> : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> felt
> : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> : > Braking
> : > > was straight.
> : > >
> : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> to
> : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> at
> : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> the
> : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> they
> : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> : > >
> : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> as
> : > the
> : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> added
> : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> : > >
> : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> : > shaking
> : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> : > >
> : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> had
> : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> and
> : > were
> : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> changed
> : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> : > >
> : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> do
> : > with
> : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> problem,
> : > it
> : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> : > > compensating for this somehow?
> : > >
> : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> front
> : > and
> : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> : > >
> : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> : > >
> : > >

Mike Romain

Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
I will look some more to see if I can find it again..

The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.

I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
it my fault period like they stated.

Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
reality.

Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
so maybe it is a subjective thing?

Mike

Cherokee-LTD wrote:
>
> Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> with space saver spares if this was the case.
> http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> -Brian
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> :
> : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> : 4x4.
> :
> : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> :
> : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> : vehicular homicide.
> :
> : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> : was found 'at fault'.
> :
> : Mike
> : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> :
> : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> : >
> : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> speed,
> : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> accelerating.
> : >
> : > thanks,
> : >
> : > carl
> : >
> : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> toyo
> : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> felt
> : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> : > Braking
> : > > was straight.
> : > >
> : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> to
> : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> at
> : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> the
> : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> they
> : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> : > >
> : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> as
> : > the
> : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> added
> : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> : > >
> : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> : > shaking
> : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> : > >
> : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> had
> : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> and
> : > were
> : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> changed
> : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> : > >
> : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> do
> : > with
> : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> problem,
> : > it
> : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> : > > compensating for this somehow?
> : > >
> : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> front
> : > and
> : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> : > >
> : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> : > >
> : > >

Will Honea

Sounds like a case of not the whole story, Mike. How can they make an
faulty equipment claim if the tires meet the manf. specified
requirements (right size, same rated size, in acceptable condition,
brand not specified)? I could see some basis for different tires on
the same axle, but I can't see any safety issue even if the tire sizes
are different on the front axle vs. the rear axle so long as they meet
the manf. spec. The way you put it, you would be required to change
tires as a set - and what's the difference between a 2WD and a 4WD if
the 4WD is not engaged? I've seen tickets written for mismatches
sizes on one axle but never for a misnatch axle to axle.

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:20:39 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
> I will look some more to see if I can find it again..
>
> The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
> the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
> ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.
>
> I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
> what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
> it my fault period like they stated.
>
> Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
> reality.
>
> Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
> different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
> both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
> so maybe it is a subjective thing?
>
> Mike
>
> Cherokee-LTD wrote:
> >
> > Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> > tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> > with space saver spares if this was the case.
> > http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> > -Brian
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> > : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> > : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> > : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> > :
> > : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> > : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> > : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> > : 4x4.
> > :
> > : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> > :
> > : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> > : vehicular homicide.
> > :
> > : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> > : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> > : was found 'at fault'.
> > :
> > : Mike
> > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > :
> > : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> > : >
> > : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> > speed,
> > : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> > accelerating.
> > : >
> > : > thanks,
> > : >
> > : > carl
> > : >
> > : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> > toyo
> > : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> > felt
> > : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> > : > Braking
> > : > > was straight.
> > : > >
> > : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> > to
> > : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> > at
> > : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> > the
> > : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> > they
> > : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> > : > >
> > : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> > as
> > : > the
> > : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> > added
> > : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> > : > >
> > : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> > : > shaking
> > : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> > : > >
> > : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> > had
> > : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> > and
> > : > were
> > : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> > : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> > changed
> > : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> > : > >
> > : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> > : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> > do
> > : > with
> > : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> > problem,
> > : > it
> > : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> > : > > compensating for this somehow?
> > : > >
> > : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> > front
> > : > and
> > : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> > : > >
> > : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> > : > >
> > : > >


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

Sounds like a case of not the whole story, Mike. How can they make an
faulty equipment claim if the tires meet the manf. specified
requirements (right size, same rated size, in acceptable condition,
brand not specified)? I could see some basis for different tires on
the same axle, but I can't see any safety issue even if the tire sizes
are different on the front axle vs. the rear axle so long as they meet
the manf. spec. The way you put it, you would be required to change
tires as a set - and what's the difference between a 2WD and a 4WD if
the 4WD is not engaged? I've seen tickets written for mismatches
sizes on one axle but never for a misnatch axle to axle.

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:20:39 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
> I will look some more to see if I can find it again..
>
> The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
> the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
> ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.
>
> I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
> what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
> it my fault period like they stated.
>
> Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
> reality.
>
> Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
> different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
> both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
> so maybe it is a subjective thing?
>
> Mike
>
> Cherokee-LTD wrote:
> >
> > Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> > tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> > with space saver spares if this was the case.
> > http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> > -Brian
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> > : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> > : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> > : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> > :
> > : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> > : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> > : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> > : 4x4.
> > :
> > : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> > :
> > : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> > : vehicular homicide.
> > :
> > : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> > : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> > : was found 'at fault'.
> > :
> > : Mike
> > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > :
> > : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> > : >
> > : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> > speed,
> > : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> > accelerating.
> > : >
> > : > thanks,
> > : >
> > : > carl
> > : >
> > : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> > toyo
> > : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> > felt
> > : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> > : > Braking
> > : > > was straight.
> > : > >
> > : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> > to
> > : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> > at
> > : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> > the
> > : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> > they
> > : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> > : > >
> > : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> > as
> > : > the
> > : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> > added
> > : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> > : > >
> > : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> > : > shaking
> > : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> > : > >
> > : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> > had
> > : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> > and
> > : > were
> > : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> > : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> > changed
> > : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> > : > >
> > : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> > : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> > do
> > : > with
> > : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> > problem,
> > : > it
> > : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> > : > > compensating for this somehow?
> > : > >
> > : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> > front
> > : > and
> > : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> > : > >
> > : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> > : > >
> > : > >


--
Will Honea

Will Honea

Sounds like a case of not the whole story, Mike. How can they make an
faulty equipment claim if the tires meet the manf. specified
requirements (right size, same rated size, in acceptable condition,
brand not specified)? I could see some basis for different tires on
the same axle, but I can't see any safety issue even if the tire sizes
are different on the front axle vs. the rear axle so long as they meet
the manf. spec. The way you put it, you would be required to change
tires as a set - and what's the difference between a 2WD and a 4WD if
the 4WD is not engaged? I've seen tickets written for mismatches
sizes on one axle but never for a misnatch axle to axle.

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:20:39 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Interesting, I dug up something a couple years back I thought, hmmm...
> I will look some more to see if I can find it again..
>
> The 'silly' spare is for emergency use and for sure if you get caught on
> the highway doing 100+ with one and something happens you will get a
> ticket. They have a lower speed stamped on them.
>
> I guess the cops and insurance could have been giving me an outline of
> what 'could' happen if they subjectively decide mis matched tires make
> it my fault period like they stated.
>
> Calling a 'fault' on an accident doesn't always have any basis in
> reality.
>
> Both the police and the insurance inspector told me the same thing at
> different times and places. One of those hidden 'gotcha's' maybe. They
> both commented about the number of tip overs and crappy tires on 4x4's
> so maybe it is a subjective thing?
>
> Mike
>
> Cherokee-LTD wrote:
> >
> > Hey Mike, can you dig up something to back up your claim on mis-matched
> > tires? It seems to me that manufacturers wouldn't be able to equip vehicles
> > with space saver spares if this was the case.
> > http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/regu/1...901/whole.html
> > -Brian
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca...
> > : You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> > : Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> > : driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
> > :
> > : Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> > : to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> > : found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> > : 4x4.
> > :
> > : No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
> > :
> > : If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> > : vehicular homicide.
> > :
> > : I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> > : Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> > : was found 'at fault'.
> > :
> > : Mike
> > : 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > : 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > :
> > : Carl Saiyed wrote:
> > : >
> > : > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine
> > speed,
> > : > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when
> > accelerating.
> > : >
> > : > thanks,
> > : >
> > : > carl
> > : >
> > : > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > : > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > : > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old
> > toyo
> > : > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking
> > felt
> > : > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> > : > Braking
> > : > > was straight.
> > : > >
> > : > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt
> > to
> > : > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more
> > at
> > : > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match
> > the
> > : > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping
> > they
> > : > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> > : > >
> > : > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size
> > as
> > : > the
> > : > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were
> > added
> > : > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> > : > >
> > : > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> > : > shaking
> > : > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> > : > >
> > : > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and
> > had
> > : > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance"
> > and
> > : > were
> > : > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> > : > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I
> > changed
> > : > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> > : > >
> > : > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> > : > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to
> > do
> > : > with
> > : > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension
> > problem,
> > : > it
> > : > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> > : > > compensating for this somehow?
> > : > >
> > : > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the
> > front
> > : > and
> > : > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> > : > >
> > : > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> > : > >
> > : > >


--
Will Honea

Rich Hampel

Take a hard look at the tread on the Goodyear MTR that were on the
front . Examine the tread near the 'inside' margin and see if there
isnt a wavy pattern in just the 'inside' area of tread. If so you have
probably a loose track bar or trackbar frame mount, etc. ... or even a
worn out steering damper.

Ditto on the mismatched tires on a 4X4, besides being illegal in most
places the strain that this mismatch (size) will put on the drive train
can be severe resulting in exptreme differential pressure, rapdily worn
diff. bearings, etc.
It s a good practice to rotate 5 tires to keep them all at the SAME
diameter ... and if you ever 'lose' one you will have an exact size
spare.


In article <4177BDC1.3E73DB32@sympatico.ca>, Mike Romain
<romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> You are describing a bad u-joint on a totally illegal (in Canada anyway)
> Cherokee. It has 2 u-joints on the back driveshaft, 3 on the front
> driveshaft and one behind each front wheel.
>
> Just a heads up for you. If you get in an accident that is bad enough
> to have the police come to and they inspect the vehicle, 'You' will be
> found 'at fault' in the accident because you have mis matched tires on a
> 4x4.
>
> No if's, and's, but's or maybe's.
>
> If someone is injured or dies, this can turn an 'accident' into
> vehicular homicide.
>
> I have been there and was told this by the police that inspected my
> Cherokee and by my insurance company. Mine passed and the other person
> was found 'at fault'.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Carl Saiyed wrote:
> >
> > I forgot to mention that it does not change with variation in engine speed,
> > and happens when cruzing, seems to get better or vanish when accelerating.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > carl
> >
> > "Carl Saiyed" <carlsaiyed@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:41770b43_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> > > My 89 Cherokee 4dr 4wd had new Goodyear MTR's in the rear, and old toyo
> > > 800's up front when I got it. There was a SLIGHT ocsciallting shaking felt
> > > in the cab, (the steering wheel did not shake) at speeds of 60+mph.
> > Braking
> > > was straight.
> > >
> > > I switched the Toyo's to the rear and the GY's to the front to attempt to
> > > diagnose the problem. The shaking changed, and could then be felt more at
> > > the rear of the vehicle. The Toyo's were well worn and did not match the
> > > GY's in terms of tread pattern, so I decided to replace them, hoping they
> > > were not good and would solve the shaking problem.
> > >
> > > I had Les Schwab put two Dean "Grabber" tires on the rear. Same size as
> > the
> > > GY's (215/75R15) All 4 tires were balanced, and 20 new lug nuts were added
> > > as the old ones had lost all thier caps.
> > >
> > > Then, with the GY's up front the Deans in the rear, there was a bad
> > shaking
> > > in the steering wheel as well as the rest of the Jeep at 45+ mph.
> > >
> > > I stopped at another Les Schwab about 15 miles from the original, and had
> > > the balance on all 4 tires checked. The rears were "out of balance" and
> > were
> > > re-balanced free of charge. The shaking is still present at 45+mph, is
> > > better than after I got the new tires but is WORSE than before I changed
> > > anything to begin with. The truck also pulls right when braking now.
> > >
> > > The manager at the original Les Schwab (A very nice guy), said that he
> > > suspects my driveshaft is the problem, the new tires have nothing to do
> > with
> > > the brake problem. I don't understand how if it was a suspension problem,
> > it
> > > would be exaggerated by new tires? Could the old tires have been
> > > compensating for this somehow?
> > >
> > > The Jeep goes back to the original Les Schwab tomorrow to have the front
> > and
> > > rear suspension checked out, as well as the drivelines checked out.
> > >
> > > Any and all opinions/advice welcomed.
> > >
> > >