Re: Need softer springs...
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Need softer springs...
Nick,
The most common cause of stiffness (and therefore low ramp scores, not
that ramp scores are really correlated to ability on the trail) are
the shackles.
the shackle bolts should be very loose, relatively, like 15-20 ft/lbs
or less.....if you tightened them even "by hand" with a wrench, or god
forbid an impact, then they're way too tight......loosen them up so
the bolt barely draws in on the shackle, maybe 15 ft/lbs, and either
use locktite and double nut, or use ny-lock nuts to keep them from
coming loose......
secondly, lift springs need longer shackles.....stock shackles are
setup for springs that are almost flat, so they dont need to move
much. 4" lift springs have a big arch, and get considerably longer as
they stuff (flatten) so the shackle has to be able to travel, without
hitting the frame rail or being extended all the way horizontal before
the spring is flat.....a good rule is a 1/2" to 1" longer than stock
for a 4" lift.....maybe closer to 1"....the shackle should be oriented
pretty much vertical when the Jeep is sitting flat on level ground.
Lastly....the bushings.....good rubber bushings will not give you the
"tight feel" of urethane, but urethane is so hard and stiff, you'll
never get any flex....you want rubber bushings in the frame end, and
both shackle bushings.
I don't really reccommend it, but you could also remove the clamps
that hold the ends of the leaf packs together....in worst case, that
can allow the leaves to move out of place.
if you really want to go all out, do all three things above, bolt
torque, longer shackles and rubber bushings.....and also, pull the
leaf packs out split them up, and interleave the spring leafs with
strips of thin teflon sheet.....I don't know where to get in in your
area, but I've seen in at a few places with adhesive
backing......stick a strip on one side of each leaf.....it will allow
the leaves to slip against each other, permitting easier flex.
if all of the above fails, start removing leafs........I know you
already have the springs, but if you get another "custom" set, get
thin leaves.....for optimum flex, a bunch of very thin, flexible leafs
would probably flex much better than a few thick stiff ones.......
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Paul
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:49:43 -0700, "Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com>
wrote:
>I just installed a lift on my 93 4cy, no hardtop wrangler about a month ago.
>The springs are 4" custom made and I also have about an inch and half lift
>shackles. Finally got to ramp it today and got maybe a 600... These
>springs are DAMN stiff and not providing much flex. I don't anticipate
>these things sagging and keeping that in mind, I'd like to know what ya'll
>out there have done or come up with to help your springs soften up. I'm
>running with the r9000's and think I'll set those softer to put more work on
>the springs but other than that I don't have any ideas. Maybe park it every
>night ramped????!!!!
> Please don't bash my rig, if that's your first thought don't bother F'N
>responding. I'm tired of seeing that crap on here.
>Nick
>
>
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Need softer springs...
Paul,
Thank you for the good info. That's what I like to read.
My Shackles are inch and half lift shackles so they are plenty long, but,
like you said they are bolted TIGHT! That is the first thing I will do is
loosen them some. They are urethane bushings also. I will also loosen the
spring clamps some. They already have a teflon liner in between. If it is
still real bad after awhile I think I will remove a leaf in each pack.There
are 5 leafs in front and four in back.
Nick
"Paul Keating" <pfk@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3f08e3e2.120224784@nntp.slnt.phub.net.cable.r ogers.com...
>
> Nick,
>
> The most common cause of stiffness (and therefore low ramp scores, not
> that ramp scores are really correlated to ability on the trail) are
> the shackles.
>
> the shackle bolts should be very loose, relatively, like 15-20 ft/lbs
> or less.....if you tightened them even "by hand" with a wrench, or god
> forbid an impact, then they're way too tight......loosen them up so
> the bolt barely draws in on the shackle, maybe 15 ft/lbs, and either
> use locktite and double nut, or use ny-lock nuts to keep them from
> coming loose......
>
> secondly, lift springs need longer shackles.....stock shackles are
> setup for springs that are almost flat, so they dont need to move
> much. 4" lift springs have a big arch, and get considerably longer as
> they stuff (flatten) so the shackle has to be able to travel, without
> hitting the frame rail or being extended all the way horizontal before
> the spring is flat.....a good rule is a 1/2" to 1" longer than stock
> for a 4" lift.....maybe closer to 1"....the shackle should be oriented
> pretty much vertical when the Jeep is sitting flat on level ground.
>
> Lastly....the bushings.....good rubber bushings will not give you the
> "tight feel" of urethane, but urethane is so hard and stiff, you'll
> never get any flex....you want rubber bushings in the frame end, and
> both shackle bushings.
>
> I don't really reccommend it, but you could also remove the clamps
> that hold the ends of the leaf packs together....in worst case, that
> can allow the leaves to move out of place.
>
> if you really want to go all out, do all three things above, bolt
> torque, longer shackles and rubber bushings.....and also, pull the
> leaf packs out split them up, and interleave the spring leafs with
> strips of thin teflon sheet.....I don't know where to get in in your
> area, but I've seen in at a few places with adhesive
> backing......stick a strip on one side of each leaf.....it will allow
> the leaves to slip against each other, permitting easier flex.
>
> if all of the above fails, start removing leafs........I know you
> already have the springs, but if you get another "custom" set, get
> thin leaves.....for optimum flex, a bunch of very thin, flexible leafs
> would probably flex much better than a few thick stiff ones.......
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:49:43 -0700, "Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I just installed a lift on my 93 4cy, no hardtop wrangler about a month
ago.
> >The springs are 4" custom made and I also have about an inch and half
lift
> >shackles. Finally got to ramp it today and got maybe a 600... These
> >springs are DAMN stiff and not providing much flex. I don't anticipate
> >these things sagging and keeping that in mind, I'd like to know what
ya'll
> >out there have done or come up with to help your springs soften up. I'm
> >running with the r9000's and think I'll set those softer to put more work
on
> >the springs but other than that I don't have any ideas. Maybe park it
every
> >night ramped????!!!!
> > Please don't bash my rig, if that's your first thought don't bother F'N
> >responding. I'm tired of seeing that crap on here.
> >Nick
> >
> >
>
Thank you for the good info. That's what I like to read.
My Shackles are inch and half lift shackles so they are plenty long, but,
like you said they are bolted TIGHT! That is the first thing I will do is
loosen them some. They are urethane bushings also. I will also loosen the
spring clamps some. They already have a teflon liner in between. If it is
still real bad after awhile I think I will remove a leaf in each pack.There
are 5 leafs in front and four in back.
Nick
"Paul Keating" <pfk@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3f08e3e2.120224784@nntp.slnt.phub.net.cable.r ogers.com...
>
> Nick,
>
> The most common cause of stiffness (and therefore low ramp scores, not
> that ramp scores are really correlated to ability on the trail) are
> the shackles.
>
> the shackle bolts should be very loose, relatively, like 15-20 ft/lbs
> or less.....if you tightened them even "by hand" with a wrench, or god
> forbid an impact, then they're way too tight......loosen them up so
> the bolt barely draws in on the shackle, maybe 15 ft/lbs, and either
> use locktite and double nut, or use ny-lock nuts to keep them from
> coming loose......
>
> secondly, lift springs need longer shackles.....stock shackles are
> setup for springs that are almost flat, so they dont need to move
> much. 4" lift springs have a big arch, and get considerably longer as
> they stuff (flatten) so the shackle has to be able to travel, without
> hitting the frame rail or being extended all the way horizontal before
> the spring is flat.....a good rule is a 1/2" to 1" longer than stock
> for a 4" lift.....maybe closer to 1"....the shackle should be oriented
> pretty much vertical when the Jeep is sitting flat on level ground.
>
> Lastly....the bushings.....good rubber bushings will not give you the
> "tight feel" of urethane, but urethane is so hard and stiff, you'll
> never get any flex....you want rubber bushings in the frame end, and
> both shackle bushings.
>
> I don't really reccommend it, but you could also remove the clamps
> that hold the ends of the leaf packs together....in worst case, that
> can allow the leaves to move out of place.
>
> if you really want to go all out, do all three things above, bolt
> torque, longer shackles and rubber bushings.....and also, pull the
> leaf packs out split them up, and interleave the spring leafs with
> strips of thin teflon sheet.....I don't know where to get in in your
> area, but I've seen in at a few places with adhesive
> backing......stick a strip on one side of each leaf.....it will allow
> the leaves to slip against each other, permitting easier flex.
>
> if all of the above fails, start removing leafs........I know you
> already have the springs, but if you get another "custom" set, get
> thin leaves.....for optimum flex, a bunch of very thin, flexible leafs
> would probably flex much better than a few thick stiff ones.......
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
>
>
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:49:43 -0700, "Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I just installed a lift on my 93 4cy, no hardtop wrangler about a month
ago.
> >The springs are 4" custom made and I also have about an inch and half
lift
> >shackles. Finally got to ramp it today and got maybe a 600... These
> >springs are DAMN stiff and not providing much flex. I don't anticipate
> >these things sagging and keeping that in mind, I'd like to know what
ya'll
> >out there have done or come up with to help your springs soften up. I'm
> >running with the r9000's and think I'll set those softer to put more work
on
> >the springs but other than that I don't have any ideas. Maybe park it
every
> >night ramped????!!!!
> > Please don't bash my rig, if that's your first thought don't bother F'N
> >responding. I'm tired of seeing that crap on here.
> >Nick
> >
> >
>
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Need softer springs...
If you don't want to exchange the springs, or can't, then you can remove
one leaf from the spring pack, but this is kind of labor intensive.
"Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:Uw6Oa.2241$7e.858@fed1read07...
> Paul,
> Thank you for the good info. That's what I like to read.
> My Shackles are inch and half lift shackles so they are plenty long, but,
> like you said they are bolted TIGHT! That is the first thing I will do is
> loosen them some. They are urethane bushings also. I will also loosen
the
> spring clamps some. They already have a teflon liner in between. If it
is
> still real bad after awhile I think I will remove a leaf in each
pack.There
> are 5 leafs in front and four in back.
> Nick
>
> "Paul Keating" <pfk@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3f08e3e2.120224784@nntp.slnt.phub.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> > The most common cause of stiffness (and therefore low ramp scores, not
> > that ramp scores are really correlated to ability on the trail) are
> > the shackles.
> >
> > the shackle bolts should be very loose, relatively, like 15-20 ft/lbs
> > or less.....if you tightened them even "by hand" with a wrench, or god
> > forbid an impact, then they're way too tight......loosen them up so
> > the bolt barely draws in on the shackle, maybe 15 ft/lbs, and either
> > use locktite and double nut, or use ny-lock nuts to keep them from
> > coming loose......
> >
> > secondly, lift springs need longer shackles.....stock shackles are
> > setup for springs that are almost flat, so they dont need to move
> > much. 4" lift springs have a big arch, and get considerably longer as
> > they stuff (flatten) so the shackle has to be able to travel, without
> > hitting the frame rail or being extended all the way horizontal before
> > the spring is flat.....a good rule is a 1/2" to 1" longer than stock
> > for a 4" lift.....maybe closer to 1"....the shackle should be oriented
> > pretty much vertical when the Jeep is sitting flat on level ground.
> >
> > Lastly....the bushings.....good rubber bushings will not give you the
> > "tight feel" of urethane, but urethane is so hard and stiff, you'll
> > never get any flex....you want rubber bushings in the frame end, and
> > both shackle bushings.
> >
> > I don't really reccommend it, but you could also remove the clamps
> > that hold the ends of the leaf packs together....in worst case, that
> > can allow the leaves to move out of place.
> >
> > if you really want to go all out, do all three things above, bolt
> > torque, longer shackles and rubber bushings.....and also, pull the
> > leaf packs out split them up, and interleave the spring leafs with
> > strips of thin teflon sheet.....I don't know where to get in in your
> > area, but I've seen in at a few places with adhesive
> > backing......stick a strip on one side of each leaf.....it will allow
> > the leaves to slip against each other, permitting easier flex.
> >
> > if all of the above fails, start removing leafs........I know you
> > already have the springs, but if you get another "custom" set, get
> > thin leaves.....for optimum flex, a bunch of very thin, flexible leafs
> > would probably flex much better than a few thick stiff ones.......
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:49:43 -0700, "Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I just installed a lift on my 93 4cy, no hardtop wrangler about a month
> ago.
> > >The springs are 4" custom made and I also have about an inch and half
> lift
> > >shackles. Finally got to ramp it today and got maybe a 600... These
> > >springs are DAMN stiff and not providing much flex. I don't anticipate
> > >these things sagging and keeping that in mind, I'd like to know what
> ya'll
> > >out there have done or come up with to help your springs soften up.
I'm
> > >running with the r9000's and think I'll set those softer to put more
work
> on
> > >the springs but other than that I don't have any ideas. Maybe park it
> every
> > >night ramped????!!!!
> > > Please don't bash my rig, if that's your first thought don't bother
F'N
> > >responding. I'm tired of seeing that crap on here.
> > >Nick
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
one leaf from the spring pack, but this is kind of labor intensive.
"Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:Uw6Oa.2241$7e.858@fed1read07...
> Paul,
> Thank you for the good info. That's what I like to read.
> My Shackles are inch and half lift shackles so they are plenty long, but,
> like you said they are bolted TIGHT! That is the first thing I will do is
> loosen them some. They are urethane bushings also. I will also loosen
the
> spring clamps some. They already have a teflon liner in between. If it
is
> still real bad after awhile I think I will remove a leaf in each
pack.There
> are 5 leafs in front and four in back.
> Nick
>
> "Paul Keating" <pfk@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:3f08e3e2.120224784@nntp.slnt.phub.net.cable.r ogers.com...
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> > The most common cause of stiffness (and therefore low ramp scores, not
> > that ramp scores are really correlated to ability on the trail) are
> > the shackles.
> >
> > the shackle bolts should be very loose, relatively, like 15-20 ft/lbs
> > or less.....if you tightened them even "by hand" with a wrench, or god
> > forbid an impact, then they're way too tight......loosen them up so
> > the bolt barely draws in on the shackle, maybe 15 ft/lbs, and either
> > use locktite and double nut, or use ny-lock nuts to keep them from
> > coming loose......
> >
> > secondly, lift springs need longer shackles.....stock shackles are
> > setup for springs that are almost flat, so they dont need to move
> > much. 4" lift springs have a big arch, and get considerably longer as
> > they stuff (flatten) so the shackle has to be able to travel, without
> > hitting the frame rail or being extended all the way horizontal before
> > the spring is flat.....a good rule is a 1/2" to 1" longer than stock
> > for a 4" lift.....maybe closer to 1"....the shackle should be oriented
> > pretty much vertical when the Jeep is sitting flat on level ground.
> >
> > Lastly....the bushings.....good rubber bushings will not give you the
> > "tight feel" of urethane, but urethane is so hard and stiff, you'll
> > never get any flex....you want rubber bushings in the frame end, and
> > both shackle bushings.
> >
> > I don't really reccommend it, but you could also remove the clamps
> > that hold the ends of the leaf packs together....in worst case, that
> > can allow the leaves to move out of place.
> >
> > if you really want to go all out, do all three things above, bolt
> > torque, longer shackles and rubber bushings.....and also, pull the
> > leaf packs out split them up, and interleave the spring leafs with
> > strips of thin teflon sheet.....I don't know where to get in in your
> > area, but I've seen in at a few places with adhesive
> > backing......stick a strip on one side of each leaf.....it will allow
> > the leaves to slip against each other, permitting easier flex.
> >
> > if all of the above fails, start removing leafs........I know you
> > already have the springs, but if you get another "custom" set, get
> > thin leaves.....for optimum flex, a bunch of very thin, flexible leafs
> > would probably flex much better than a few thick stiff ones.......
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:49:43 -0700, "Nick N" <nnote@despammed.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I just installed a lift on my 93 4cy, no hardtop wrangler about a month
> ago.
> > >The springs are 4" custom made and I also have about an inch and half
> lift
> > >shackles. Finally got to ramp it today and got maybe a 600... These
> > >springs are DAMN stiff and not providing much flex. I don't anticipate
> > >these things sagging and keeping that in mind, I'd like to know what
> ya'll
> > >out there have done or come up with to help your springs soften up.
I'm
> > >running with the r9000's and think I'll set those softer to put more
work
> on
> > >the springs but other than that I don't have any ideas. Maybe park it
> every
> > >night ramped????!!!!
> > > Please don't bash my rig, if that's your first thought don't bother
F'N
> > >responding. I'm tired of seeing that crap on here.
> > >Nick
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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