Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

On Sep 22, 11:21 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 11:07 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Tracie wrote:
> > > > Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
> > > > axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
> > > > be replacing the gearing again?
>
> > > No.
>
> > > A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
> > > axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
> > > changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>
> > > D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>
> > > Not sure about the driveshaft.
>
> > > If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> > I do not have ABS.
>
> > TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
> > you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
> > gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
> > too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
> > need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
> > 44s and leave the 30 in the front?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> If I go the route of the D44s, what is the difference between the
> locking axles and the limited slip axles?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh goodness. I am sooo confused. What is the difference/benefit/etc.
of totally changing out the Dana 30/35 for the Dana 44s (other than
the stronger axles)? Won't you get the same effect if you keep the
original Dana's and just upgrade the gears to 4.11s? I don't do any
heavy off-roading at all, and don't ever intend to upgrade my tires to
any bigger than a 33" tire. I also do not intend to lift my rig more
than 4 inches (I am leaning on a 3.5 RE lift). What is the overall
benefit of the stronger axles of the D44s? Now the other confusion is
mentioned in my previous post regarding the difference in limited slip
vs. locking. I do a lot of snow driving and a lot of highway driving
if it helps.

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Tracie wrote:
>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>> No.
>>
>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>
>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>
>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>
>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> I do not have ABS.
>
> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?
>

My CJ7 came stock with the D30 front and the D44 rear.

There is no such thing as switching D35 axles with D44 ones, they are
apples and oranges, a completely different design.

You 'can' get beefed up D35 axles though I think.

TW is saying you can get the complete units from a wrecked TJ and 'hope
and pray' that the wrecking process didn't bend anything when it
happened so you can actually make them work. A burned out one would be
safest, then you just need all new seals if the heat got to them. TJ's
are too young to get rotted out body ones yet I think. They are best.
Rust doesn't eat axle housings fast like it does to body tubs.

Folks that run big tires (33" plus) with lockers and run them hard off
road can break D35 axles or the C-clips that hold them in. That is why
an upgrade is available. A used set of 'say' a D44 or a Ford 8.8" is
usually cheaper than an upgrade.

How long is your Warranty?

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Tracie wrote:
>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>> No.
>>
>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>
>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>
>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>
>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> I do not have ABS.
>
> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?
>

My CJ7 came stock with the D30 front and the D44 rear.

There is no such thing as switching D35 axles with D44 ones, they are
apples and oranges, a completely different design.

You 'can' get beefed up D35 axles though I think.

TW is saying you can get the complete units from a wrecked TJ and 'hope
and pray' that the wrecking process didn't bend anything when it
happened so you can actually make them work. A burned out one would be
safest, then you just need all new seals if the heat got to them. TJ's
are too young to get rotted out body ones yet I think. They are best.
Rust doesn't eat axle housings fast like it does to body tubs.

Folks that run big tires (33" plus) with lockers and run them hard off
road can break D35 axles or the C-clips that hold them in. That is why
an upgrade is available. A used set of 'say' a D44 or a Ford 8.8" is
usually cheaper than an upgrade.

How long is your Warranty?

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Tracie wrote:
>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>> No.
>>
>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>
>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>
>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>
>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> I do not have ABS.
>
> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?
>

My CJ7 came stock with the D30 front and the D44 rear.

There is no such thing as switching D35 axles with D44 ones, they are
apples and oranges, a completely different design.

You 'can' get beefed up D35 axles though I think.

TW is saying you can get the complete units from a wrecked TJ and 'hope
and pray' that the wrecking process didn't bend anything when it
happened so you can actually make them work. A burned out one would be
safest, then you just need all new seals if the heat got to them. TJ's
are too young to get rotted out body ones yet I think. They are best.
Rust doesn't eat axle housings fast like it does to body tubs.

Folks that run big tires (33" plus) with lockers and run them hard off
road can break D35 axles or the C-clips that hold them in. That is why
an upgrade is available. A used set of 'say' a D44 or a Ford 8.8" is
usually cheaper than an upgrade.

How long is your Warranty?

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Tracie wrote:
>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>> No.
>>
>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>
>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>
>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>
>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> I do not have ABS.
>
> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?
>

My CJ7 came stock with the D30 front and the D44 rear.

There is no such thing as switching D35 axles with D44 ones, they are
apples and oranges, a completely different design.

You 'can' get beefed up D35 axles though I think.

TW is saying you can get the complete units from a wrecked TJ and 'hope
and pray' that the wrecking process didn't bend anything when it
happened so you can actually make them work. A burned out one would be
safest, then you just need all new seals if the heat got to them. TJ's
are too young to get rotted out body ones yet I think. They are best.
Rust doesn't eat axle housings fast like it does to body tubs.

Folks that run big tires (33" plus) with lockers and run them hard off
road can break D35 axles or the C-clips that hold them in. That is why
an upgrade is available. A used set of 'say' a D44 or a Ford 8.8" is
usually cheaper than an upgrade.

How long is your Warranty?

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 11:07 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tracie wrote:
>>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>>> No.
>>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> I do not have ABS.
>>
>> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
>> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
>> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
>> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
>> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
>> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If I go the route of the D44s, what is the difference between the
> locking axles and the limited slip axles?
>

One is almost impossible to drive on the street in snow, the other
'hard' to drive in snow respectively.

The only one that works well in snow, except for starting off, is the
one you can just turn off.

Just my $0.02 from 40 years of snow driving,

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 11:07 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tracie wrote:
>>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>>> No.
>>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> I do not have ABS.
>>
>> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
>> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
>> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
>> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
>> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
>> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If I go the route of the D44s, what is the difference between the
> locking axles and the limited slip axles?
>

One is almost impossible to drive on the street in snow, the other
'hard' to drive in snow respectively.

The only one that works well in snow, except for starting off, is the
one you can just turn off.

Just my $0.02 from 40 years of snow driving,

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 11:07 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tracie wrote:
>>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>>> No.
>>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> I do not have ABS.
>>
>> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
>> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
>> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
>> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
>> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
>> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If I go the route of the D44s, what is the difference between the
> locking axles and the limited slip axles?
>

One is almost impossible to drive on the street in snow, the other
'hard' to drive in snow respectively.

The only one that works well in snow, except for starting off, is the
one you can just turn off.

Just my $0.02 from 40 years of snow driving,

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:
> On Sep 22, 11:07 am, Tracie <brain...@upstate.edu> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 10:37 am, Mike Romain <roma...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Tracie wrote:
>>>> Just so that I understand, the D44 axles would just be replacing the
>>>> axle shafts and the differential housings ONLY, correct? It would not
>>>> be replacing the gearing again?
>>> No.
>>> A Dana 44 is a complete housing that includes the case, the gears, the
>>> axles, the brake mounting plate, the emergency brake, everything must be
>>> changed including the brake shoes or pads.
>>> D35 gears don't fit a D44, they are a different size.
>>> Not sure about the driveshaft.
>>> If you have ABS, then things get even more complex.
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> I do not have ABS.
>>
>> TW -- How complicated would it be to just switch out the axles like
>> you're suggesting? Would this be easier than just upgrading the
>> gearing? Or does everything that Mike mentioned have to be changed
>> too even if you just upgrade the gearing from stock to 4.11? Would I
>> need D44 for the front AND rear? Or do I just change the rear 35s to
>> 44s and leave the 30 in the front?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> If I go the route of the D44s, what is the difference between the
> locking axles and the limited slip axles?
>

One is almost impossible to drive on the street in snow, the other
'hard' to drive in snow respectively.

The only one that works well in snow, except for starting off, is the
one you can just turn off.

Just my $0.02 from 40 years of snow driving,

Mike

Re: RE-GEARING TO EITHER 3.73 OR 4.11 (repeat -- sorry)
 

Tracie wrote:

>
> Oh goodness. I am sooo confused. What is the difference/benefit/etc.
> of totally changing out the Dana 30/35 for the Dana 44s (other than
> the stronger axles)?

You lose your drivetrain warranty for starters!

Won't you get the same effect if you keep the
> original Dana's and just upgrade the gears to 4.11s?

Yup.


I don't do any
> heavy off-roading at all, and don't ever intend to upgrade my tires to
> any bigger than a 33" tire. I also do not intend to lift my rig more
> than 4 inches (I am leaning on a 3.5 RE lift). What is the overall
> benefit of the stronger axles of the D44s?

No benefit in your case, unless you 'really' enjoy spending money and
having no drivetrain warranty on your New Jeep.

Ya ya, I know about the US mag moss law, but they can 'easily' blame a
t-case or tranny or driveshaft failure on a bad install as well as the
brake parts or suspension parts. You can forget wheel bearings,
anything to do with steering or front end. etc., etc.

Now the other confusion is
> mentioned in my previous post regarding the difference in limited slip
> vs. locking. I do a lot of snow driving and a lot of highway driving
> if it helps.
>

See my other 2 posts about that. Traction devices are not generally a
good thing on snow on the road in a short wheelbase Jeep.

You are asking too many questions too fast. You should wait for answers.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)