Kevin in San Diego

Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I have a
bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a new
compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer etc.). Has
anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be cold while
going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a shop will
charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
KH

Jerry Bransford

Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot temps. My
wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as cold as
my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up with
the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway they
can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think R12 is
still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/

"Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I have
a
> bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a new
> compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer etc.).
Has
> anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be cold
while
> going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a shop
will
> charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> KH
>
>
>

Earle Horton

I'm with Jerry on this one. If you want cooling at 5 mph and 100 degree
temperatures, you want R12. You should still be able to get the system
charged with R12, but it will cost more than R134a. It will be worth it
though.

Ever been to Mexico? I hear they will sell you all the R12 you want...

Earle

"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
news:56i%a.521$Qy4.400@fed1read05...
> Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot temps. My
> wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as cold as
> my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up with
> the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway they
> can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think R12
is
> still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I
have
> a
> > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a new
> > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer etc.).
> Has
> > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be cold
> while
> > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a shop
> will
> > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> > KH
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Carlo Jr.

ditto
R134A isn't as effective as R12 & it is even worse in a R12 system......

--
Carlo F. Serusa, Jr. RPh
carlo.jr@comcast.net
'98 Sahara TJ - '89 YJ - '79 Scout II
O|||||||O
'92 Explorer '65 Mustang


"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bhkc0r$6sgl$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
> I'm with Jerry on this one. If you want cooling at 5 mph and 100 degree
> temperatures, you want R12. You should still be able to get the system
> charged with R12, but it will cost more than R134a. It will be worth it
> though.
>
> Ever been to Mexico? I hear they will sell you all the R12 you want...
>
> Earle
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@mecox.net> wrote in message
> news:56i%a.521$Qy4.400@fed1read05...
> > Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot temps.
My
> > wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as cold
as
> > my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up
with
> > the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway
they
> > can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think
R12
> is
> > still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
> >
> > Jerry
> > --
> > Jerry Bransford
> > To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> > KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >
> > "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> > > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> > > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I
> have
> > a
> > > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a
new
> > > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer
etc.).
> > Has
> > > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be cold
> > while
> > > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a shop
> > will
> > > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> > > KH
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

JEEP TJ

jerry, when did they stop using R12 in the wranglers. thanks john jr

Jerry Bransford wrote:

> Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot temps. My
> wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as cold as
> my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up with
> the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway they
> can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think R12 is
> still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>
> "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I have
> a
> > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a new
> > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer etc.).
> Has
> > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be cold
> while
> > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a shop
> will
> > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> > KH
> >
> >
> >

Earle Horton

Kevin's Jeep is an '88. It was originally designed for R12 and shipped with
R12 in it. "What the system calls for" is R12. If he converts it to R134a,
I don't think he will be happy.

(I think new vehicles started shipping with R134a in 1993 or 1994, but don't
quote that.)

Earle

"mctiger" <mctiger@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:007sjvg5qnpvve0ccp2sp8l4rjtp9dv1ul@4ax.com...
> Hi,
> R-12 was discontinued because of FMVSS ( Federal Motor Vehicle
> Safety Standards).The laws are enforced by and issued by NHTSA
> (National Highway Traffic Safety administration.) They found that R-12
> eats away the ozone.Therefore it is bad for anyone.
> A 134 system can not use R-12 instead of the proper R-134.It is a
> different design.If you use R-12 -The sticker under the hood of your
> jeep say's R-134 @ lps.Then you are committing a crime under the FMVVS
> standards.You are only suppose to use what the system calls for,not
> what may be better.
> I hope my input helps you.
> Good luck!
>
>
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:27:07 -0500, JEEP TJ <jeeptj@crtelco.com>
> wrote:
>
> >jerry, when did they stop using R12 in the wranglers. thanks john jr
> >
> >Jerry Bransford wrote:
> >
> >> Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot temps.
My
> >> wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as cold
as
> >> my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up
with
> >> the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway
they
> >> can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think
R12 is
> >> still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >> --
> >> Jerry Bransford
> >> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> >> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> >> See the Geezer Jeep at
> >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> >>
> >> "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> >> > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> >> > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me. I
have
> >> a
> >> > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a
new
> >> > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer
etc.).
> >> Has
> >> > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be
cold
> >> while
> >> > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a
shop
> >> will
> >> > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> >> > KH
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
>
> Have sence,patience,and self-restrain,and no mischief will come.

Kevin in San Diego

From what the AC shops have been telling me, If I need to get a new
compressor then I might as well replace all the other parts too and convert
to 134. But R12 is 50 bucks a pound or so and The system only holds 2 or 2.5
lbs. So it sounds to me like fixing my R12 system would only theoretically
cost about 100 bucks more that converting all the parts over to R134. I need
all the cooling I can get here in SD. Maybe I will stay with R12. by the
way, I decided to charge the thing with 75 bucks worth of R12 just to get it
going again. The leaks are still there. I hope to get another year out of
these parts before replacing them. I just dont have time now. My last charge
lasted 3 or 4 years with the same compressor seal leak. The low side hose
looks like it is going bad though. It has a few very tiny micro pinholes
that seep oil.
KH

"Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
news:bhlj5r$opso$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Kevin's Jeep is an '88. It was originally designed for R12 and shipped
with
> R12 in it. "What the system calls for" is R12. If he converts it to
R134a,
> I don't think he will be happy.
>
> (I think new vehicles started shipping with R134a in 1993 or 1994, but
don't
> quote that.)
>
> Earle
>
> "mctiger" <mctiger@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:007sjvg5qnpvve0ccp2sp8l4rjtp9dv1ul@4ax.com...
> > Hi,
> > R-12 was discontinued because of FMVSS ( Federal Motor Vehicle
> > Safety Standards).The laws are enforced by and issued by NHTSA
> > (National Highway Traffic Safety administration.) They found that R-12
> > eats away the ozone.Therefore it is bad for anyone.
> > A 134 system can not use R-12 instead of the proper R-134.It is a
> > different design.If you use R-12 -The sticker under the hood of your
> > jeep say's R-134 @ lps.Then you are committing a crime under the FMVVS
> > standards.You are only suppose to use what the system calls for,not
> > what may be better.
> > I hope my input helps you.
> > Good luck!
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:27:07 -0500, JEEP TJ <jeeptj@crtelco.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >jerry, when did they stop using R12 in the wranglers. thanks john jr
> > >
> > >Jerry Bransford wrote:
> > >
> > >> Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot
temps.
> My
> > >> wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as
cold
> as
> > >> my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep up
> with
> > >> the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there anyway
> they
> > >> can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I think
> R12 is
> > >> still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
> > >>
> > >> Jerry
> > >> --
> > >> Jerry Bransford
> > >> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> > >> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
> > >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > >>
> > >> "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> > >> > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> > >> > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for me.
I
> have
> > >> a
> > >> > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting a
> new
> > >> > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer
> etc.).
> > >> Has
> > >> > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be
> cold
> > >> while
> > >> > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a
> shop
> > >> will
> > >> > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound right?
> > >> > KH
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
> > Have sence,patience,and self-restrain,and no mischief will come.
>
>

Earle Horton

My Suburban had already been converted to R134a, so this year when it came
time to fix all the leaks I used R134a again. I have no refrigerant or air
leaks, a like new blower, and a new compressor and metering orifice valve.
I am disappointed with the result. If you want to be disappointed too, then
you could convert to R134a! I may just convert the Suburban back to R12
some day.

Earle

"Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ux%a.792$Qy4.483@fed1read05...
> From what the AC shops have been telling me, If I need to get a new
> compressor then I might as well replace all the other parts too and
convert
> to 134. But R12 is 50 bucks a pound or so and The system only holds 2 or
2.5
> lbs. So it sounds to me like fixing my R12 system would only theoretically
> cost about 100 bucks more that converting all the parts over to R134. I
need
> all the cooling I can get here in SD. Maybe I will stay with R12. by the
> way, I decided to charge the thing with 75 bucks worth of R12 just to get
it
> going again. The leaks are still there. I hope to get another year out of
> these parts before replacing them. I just dont have time now. My last
charge
> lasted 3 or 4 years with the same compressor seal leak. The low side hose
> looks like it is going bad though. It has a few very tiny micro pinholes
> that seep oil.
> KH
>
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote in message
> news:bhlj5r$opso$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Kevin's Jeep is an '88. It was originally designed for R12 and shipped
> with
> > R12 in it. "What the system calls for" is R12. If he converts it to
> R134a,
> > I don't think he will be happy.
> >
> > (I think new vehicles started shipping with R134a in 1993 or 1994, but
> don't
> > quote that.)
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "mctiger" <mctiger@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:007sjvg5qnpvve0ccp2sp8l4rjtp9dv1ul@4ax.com...
> > > Hi,
> > > R-12 was discontinued because of FMVSS ( Federal Motor Vehicle
> > > Safety Standards).The laws are enforced by and issued by NHTSA
> > > (National Highway Traffic Safety administration.) They found that R-12
> > > eats away the ozone.Therefore it is bad for anyone.
> > > A 134 system can not use R-12 instead of the proper R-134.It is a
> > > different design.If you use R-12 -The sticker under the hood of your
> > > jeep say's R-134 @ lps.Then you are committing a crime under the FMVVS
> > > standards.You are only suppose to use what the system calls for,not
> > > what may be better.
> > > I hope my input helps you.
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:27:07 -0500, JEEP TJ <jeeptj@crtelco.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >jerry, when did they stop using R12 in the wranglers. thanks john jr
> > > >
> > > >Jerry Bransford wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Kevin, R134 just isn't as effective as R12 is in the really hot
> temps.
> > My
> > > >> wife's 2002 a/c in her JGC uses R134 and it doesn't put out air as
> cold
> > as
> > > >> my '97 TJ does that uses R12. In fact, it was barely able to keep
up
> > with
> > > >> the Las Vegas temps we encountered a few weeks ago. Is there
anyway
> > they
> > > >> can repair yours AND use R12? I know the laws are strict but I
think
> > R12 is
> > > >> still available for repairs if you're a certified a/c mechanic.
> > > >>
> > > >> Jerry
> > > >> --
> > > >> Jerry Bransford
> > > >> To email, remove 'me' from my email address
> > > >> KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
> > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
> > > >>
> > > >> "Kevin in San Diego" <kevin_hedstrom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:l2i%a.520$Qy4.321@fed1read05...
> > > >> > Has anyone converted their older (1988 R12 system) to R134. I am
> > > >> > contemplating converting mine since its new compressor time for
me.
> I
> > have
> > > >> a
> > > >> > bad hose and a bad front compressor seal leak. I would be getting
a
> > new
> > > >> > compressor and replacing all the other parts too. (receiver/dryer
> > etc.).
> > > >> Has
> > > >> > anyone done this to an older Jeep? Did it work? I need mine to be
> > cold
> > > >> while
> > > >> > going 5mph in rough terrain and 100 degree temps. I am guessing a
> > shop
> > > >> will
> > > >> > charge me about 800 US dollars for this job. Does that sound
right?
> > > >> > KH
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> > > Have sence,patience,and self-restrain,and no mischief will come.
> >
> >
>
>

Grumman-581

"Earle Horton" wrote ...
> My Suburban had already been converted to R134a, so this year when it came
> time to fix all the leaks I used R134a again. I have no refrigerant or
air
> leaks, a like new blower, and a new compressor and metering orifice valve.
> I am disappointed with the result. If you want to be disappointed too,
then
> you could convert to R134a! I may just convert the Suburban back to R12
> some day.

My '95 XJ has the R134 stuff... Cools well enough even on a hot day here in
Houston... Looking back, I probably shouldn't have bought the black one
though... Black cars are not all that smart down here... Grace's Mercedes
was converted to the R134 stuff and it seems to cool as quick as when it was
running on R12...

Grumman-581

"Kevin in San Diego" wrote ...
> One thing about the XJ. Its under hood temperatures are insane. Even when
> the engine is only running at 190 or 200 degrees.

I've noticed that also... The relay for my electric fan has been sticking
and I need to periodically jiggle it after stopping the vehicle so that it
won't keep running after I'm through driving it... It will run to the point
where the battery is just barely able to turn over the engine the next time
I'm ready to start it... When I have to open the hood, it is hot enough that
I need leather gloves... Part of that is the engine temperature, part of
that is that the vehicle is painted black and this is Houston during the
summer...