OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
#261
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Hi Paul,
Again I will tell I don't let it go down on purpose, just maybe to
which side. If in your situation you were braking hard enough for the
rear wheel to come off the ground then more than likely it has stopped
rotation, loosing gyroscopic, and you're going down, unless you are
performing a trick as this rider:
http://www.cybersportbike.com/stunts/grstoppie.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Paul Calman wrote:
>
> No, but you might slide under a big trailer, where a station wagon would
> cause you to stop suddenly. I would rather go over a car and try my luck at
> slower decelleration than slam into it at a high speed. I hit the side of a
> horse trailer two years ago, I managed to get the bike down to about 20 MPH
> before impact, and got up to look at the damage, and rode another 100 miles
> that evening. If I had lost control and slid, I would have hit harder and
> might have been crushed under it as she didn't actually stop moving untill
> she finished crossing my lane, dragging the bike with her.
> http://home.goldrush.com/obsoelyt/s82.jpg
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
Again I will tell I don't let it go down on purpose, just maybe to
which side. If in your situation you were braking hard enough for the
rear wheel to come off the ground then more than likely it has stopped
rotation, loosing gyroscopic, and you're going down, unless you are
performing a trick as this rider:
http://www.cybersportbike.com/stunts/grstoppie.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Paul Calman wrote:
>
> No, but you might slide under a big trailer, where a station wagon would
> cause you to stop suddenly. I would rather go over a car and try my luck at
> slower decelleration than slam into it at a high speed. I hit the side of a
> horse trailer two years ago, I managed to get the bike down to about 20 MPH
> before impact, and got up to look at the damage, and rode another 100 miles
> that evening. If I had lost control and slid, I would have hit harder and
> might have been crushed under it as she didn't actually stop moving untill
> she finished crossing my lane, dragging the bike with her.
> http://home.goldrush.com/obsoelyt/s82.jpg
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
#262
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Hi Paul,
Again I will tell I don't let it go down on purpose, just maybe to
which side. If in your situation you were braking hard enough for the
rear wheel to come off the ground then more than likely it has stopped
rotation, loosing gyroscopic, and you're going down, unless you are
performing a trick as this rider:
http://www.cybersportbike.com/stunts/grstoppie.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Paul Calman wrote:
>
> No, but you might slide under a big trailer, where a station wagon would
> cause you to stop suddenly. I would rather go over a car and try my luck at
> slower decelleration than slam into it at a high speed. I hit the side of a
> horse trailer two years ago, I managed to get the bike down to about 20 MPH
> before impact, and got up to look at the damage, and rode another 100 miles
> that evening. If I had lost control and slid, I would have hit harder and
> might have been crushed under it as she didn't actually stop moving untill
> she finished crossing my lane, dragging the bike with her.
> http://home.goldrush.com/obsoelyt/s82.jpg
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
Again I will tell I don't let it go down on purpose, just maybe to
which side. If in your situation you were braking hard enough for the
rear wheel to come off the ground then more than likely it has stopped
rotation, loosing gyroscopic, and you're going down, unless you are
performing a trick as this rider:
http://www.cybersportbike.com/stunts/grstoppie.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Paul Calman wrote:
>
> No, but you might slide under a big trailer, where a station wagon would
> cause you to stop suddenly. I would rather go over a car and try my luck at
> slower decelleration than slam into it at a high speed. I hit the side of a
> horse trailer two years ago, I managed to get the bike down to about 20 MPH
> before impact, and got up to look at the damage, and rode another 100 miles
> that evening. If I had lost control and slid, I would have hit harder and
> might have been crushed under it as she didn't actually stop moving untill
> she finished crossing my lane, dragging the bike with her.
> http://home.goldrush.com/obsoelyt/s82.jpg
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
#263
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Missed it by that much, Agent 99.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
#264
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Missed it by that much, Agent 99.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
#265
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Missed it by that much, Agent 99.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
GzrGlide wrote:
>
> You're right. Never ridden in Cali! Maybe someday.
> As for lane splitting. I stopped doing that over 20 years ago when I had
> an incident.
>
> I was splitting lanes trying to get to the front of a line, when my
> right side mirror hit the mirror on a car and my mirror went flying!
> As soon as my mirror went flying, the g/f started freaking and poundig
> so hard on my back, she damm near knocked the wind out of me. Seeing my
> mirror go flying, made me think twice about lane splitting. You're out
> there to ride anyway, what's the rush?
>
> Btw, the g/f took the bus home (my choice)!
>
> Mike
#266
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
I'll swear up and down on a stack of bibles I only got about
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#267
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
I'll swear up and down on a stack of bibles I only got about
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#268
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
I'll swear up and down on a stack of bibles I only got about
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
eighteen on my '72 sportster.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Old Crow wrote:
>
>
> I don't think the stage one mods are that big a concern, Mike.
> My wife's Superglide with S&S carb, big cam and open drag pipes gets
> about 45-47 mpg.
> OTOH, my old shovelhead with the S&S 92" stroker kit only gets about
> 35(but it pulls oh-so-nice :-) ).
> Seems to me the guys over on rmh with the newer bikes in stock trim
> are getting about the same as you or my wife. Fuelies seem to get
> better mileage than carbed bikes and older riders seem to get better
> mileage than the kids.
> For reference, my '74 Sporty and my wife's '72 Sporty both got about
> 45 mpg, and the 750 Honda I had when I lived in SoCal got about 50(and
> that was with a big Windjammer fairing on it.
>
> Oh, and CRWLR, even if you've ridden a million miles, if you've been
> off of bikes for a while, take the MSF course...you'll be glad you
> did, and it might calm some of the wife's fears.
>
> --
> Old Crow
> '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl'
> '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande
> ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1
> TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51
#269
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Hey CRWLR,
I wouldn't buy another bike again for commuting for several reasons;
1. The fuel savings won't offset the costs of maintenance and insurance not
even taking into consideration the initial investment. If this becomes your
commuter, what does that make your beemer? You might as well sell it.
2. There is NO debate over safety. In the event of an accident, your odds of
injury avoidance are better driving the losing Pinto in a demolition derby.
When commuting, you exponentially increase your odds of an accident.
3. Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of riding a motorcycle like having to be
somewhere at a certain time i.e. work. I used to enjoy polishing my vintage
GL but it became a chore. Thankfully a caring neighbour rescued this
specimen from me and devotes the time into maintaining it.
My next bike will have no purpose other than to sit and look pretty until I
want to ride it... where I want to ride it.. for as long as I want to ride
it. My next one may be a chopper... it only takes Paul & Vin three episodes
to build one ;-)
-Brian
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104fe5edfh17e5a@corp.supernews.com...
: My commute is such that I could do it in half the time on a bike, but I
need
: more to get Mrs. CRWLR onboard. She is not liking the idea very much.
:
: I want to sell her on the idea that I will save enough on gas for the BMW
to
: finance the payment on the bike. I am talking about a Real Bike here, not
: any sissy scooter. I have my eye on a big-bore, but have not settled on a
: particular make or model. I pretended for a long time that I would want a
: Goldwing or equivelent, but that plan supposes that Mrs. CRWLR would be a
: willing passenger. It seems that she won't even go into the garage if the
: bike is out there, let alone slide it between her knees. I have now
: broadened my horizons to include the cruiser class (Harley and clones) as
: well as the touring class (Goldwing and clones). I have no interest in the
: crotch rockets.
:
: My off topic question is, what sort of mileage do you guys with the Harley
: type and the Goldwing type bikes get? I am hoping the number is in the 35+
: mpg range, but my BMW delivers 25 mpg, so I need a pretty high
differential
: in bike mileage vs. car mileage to make my sales pitch work.
:
I wouldn't buy another bike again for commuting for several reasons;
1. The fuel savings won't offset the costs of maintenance and insurance not
even taking into consideration the initial investment. If this becomes your
commuter, what does that make your beemer? You might as well sell it.
2. There is NO debate over safety. In the event of an accident, your odds of
injury avoidance are better driving the losing Pinto in a demolition derby.
When commuting, you exponentially increase your odds of an accident.
3. Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of riding a motorcycle like having to be
somewhere at a certain time i.e. work. I used to enjoy polishing my vintage
GL but it became a chore. Thankfully a caring neighbour rescued this
specimen from me and devotes the time into maintaining it.
My next bike will have no purpose other than to sit and look pretty until I
want to ride it... where I want to ride it.. for as long as I want to ride
it. My next one may be a chopper... it only takes Paul & Vin three episodes
to build one ;-)
-Brian
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104fe5edfh17e5a@corp.supernews.com...
: My commute is such that I could do it in half the time on a bike, but I
need
: more to get Mrs. CRWLR onboard. She is not liking the idea very much.
:
: I want to sell her on the idea that I will save enough on gas for the BMW
to
: finance the payment on the bike. I am talking about a Real Bike here, not
: any sissy scooter. I have my eye on a big-bore, but have not settled on a
: particular make or model. I pretended for a long time that I would want a
: Goldwing or equivelent, but that plan supposes that Mrs. CRWLR would be a
: willing passenger. It seems that she won't even go into the garage if the
: bike is out there, let alone slide it between her knees. I have now
: broadened my horizons to include the cruiser class (Harley and clones) as
: well as the touring class (Goldwing and clones). I have no interest in the
: crotch rockets.
:
: My off topic question is, what sort of mileage do you guys with the Harley
: type and the Goldwing type bikes get? I am hoping the number is in the 35+
: mpg range, but my BMW delivers 25 mpg, so I need a pretty high
differential
: in bike mileage vs. car mileage to make my sales pitch work.
:
#270
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - Motorcycle fuel mileage
Hey CRWLR,
I wouldn't buy another bike again for commuting for several reasons;
1. The fuel savings won't offset the costs of maintenance and insurance not
even taking into consideration the initial investment. If this becomes your
commuter, what does that make your beemer? You might as well sell it.
2. There is NO debate over safety. In the event of an accident, your odds of
injury avoidance are better driving the losing Pinto in a demolition derby.
When commuting, you exponentially increase your odds of an accident.
3. Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of riding a motorcycle like having to be
somewhere at a certain time i.e. work. I used to enjoy polishing my vintage
GL but it became a chore. Thankfully a caring neighbour rescued this
specimen from me and devotes the time into maintaining it.
My next bike will have no purpose other than to sit and look pretty until I
want to ride it... where I want to ride it.. for as long as I want to ride
it. My next one may be a chopper... it only takes Paul & Vin three episodes
to build one ;-)
-Brian
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104fe5edfh17e5a@corp.supernews.com...
: My commute is such that I could do it in half the time on a bike, but I
need
: more to get Mrs. CRWLR onboard. She is not liking the idea very much.
:
: I want to sell her on the idea that I will save enough on gas for the BMW
to
: finance the payment on the bike. I am talking about a Real Bike here, not
: any sissy scooter. I have my eye on a big-bore, but have not settled on a
: particular make or model. I pretended for a long time that I would want a
: Goldwing or equivelent, but that plan supposes that Mrs. CRWLR would be a
: willing passenger. It seems that she won't even go into the garage if the
: bike is out there, let alone slide it between her knees. I have now
: broadened my horizons to include the cruiser class (Harley and clones) as
: well as the touring class (Goldwing and clones). I have no interest in the
: crotch rockets.
:
: My off topic question is, what sort of mileage do you guys with the Harley
: type and the Goldwing type bikes get? I am hoping the number is in the 35+
: mpg range, but my BMW delivers 25 mpg, so I need a pretty high
differential
: in bike mileage vs. car mileage to make my sales pitch work.
:
I wouldn't buy another bike again for commuting for several reasons;
1. The fuel savings won't offset the costs of maintenance and insurance not
even taking into consideration the initial investment. If this becomes your
commuter, what does that make your beemer? You might as well sell it.
2. There is NO debate over safety. In the event of an accident, your odds of
injury avoidance are better driving the losing Pinto in a demolition derby.
When commuting, you exponentially increase your odds of an accident.
3. Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of riding a motorcycle like having to be
somewhere at a certain time i.e. work. I used to enjoy polishing my vintage
GL but it became a chore. Thankfully a caring neighbour rescued this
specimen from me and devotes the time into maintaining it.
My next bike will have no purpose other than to sit and look pretty until I
want to ride it... where I want to ride it.. for as long as I want to ride
it. My next one may be a chopper... it only takes Paul & Vin three episodes
to build one ;-)
-Brian
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:104fe5edfh17e5a@corp.supernews.com...
: My commute is such that I could do it in half the time on a bike, but I
need
: more to get Mrs. CRWLR onboard. She is not liking the idea very much.
:
: I want to sell her on the idea that I will save enough on gas for the BMW
to
: finance the payment on the bike. I am talking about a Real Bike here, not
: any sissy scooter. I have my eye on a big-bore, but have not settled on a
: particular make or model. I pretended for a long time that I would want a
: Goldwing or equivelent, but that plan supposes that Mrs. CRWLR would be a
: willing passenger. It seems that she won't even go into the garage if the
: bike is out there, let alone slide it between her knees. I have now
: broadened my horizons to include the cruiser class (Harley and clones) as
: well as the touring class (Goldwing and clones). I have no interest in the
: crotch rockets.
:
: My off topic question is, what sort of mileage do you guys with the Harley
: type and the Goldwing type bikes get? I am hoping the number is in the 35+
: mpg range, but my BMW delivers 25 mpg, so I need a pretty high
differential
: in bike mileage vs. car mileage to make my sales pitch work.
: