OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
#151
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
The civil folks on this newsgroup have my real address. You don't count.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
#152
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
The civil folks on this newsgroup have my real address. You don't count.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
#153
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
The civil folks on this newsgroup have my real address. You don't count.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> "Not a chance." Correct, as I treat all adress-less cowards the
> same.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
>>At it again Bill? Can't respond to the point so you attack the person?
>>As usual. Seems to me you implied similar things to many folks whenever
>>you get cornered.
>>
>>Trolling for the explosion. Lets see if he can just let it lie there!
>>Not a chance. Heh, heh.
>>
>>Cheers.
#154
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:53:20 -0400, Jeff <nothing@here.com> wrote:
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
#155
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:53:20 -0400, Jeff <nothing@here.com> wrote:
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
#156
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:53:20 -0400, Jeff <nothing@here.com> wrote:
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
#157
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:53:20 -0400, Jeff <nothing@here.com> wrote:
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
>In article <61rih0p204f9ls2juva7f1qaojehclojcq@4ax.com>, Matt Osborn
>wrote:
>
>> When the aircraft carrier flew the 'mission accomplished' banner, that
>> was a fact. Their mission had been accomplished. You're referring to
>> the 'end of major combat' which was also a fact. There have been no
>> Republican Guard tank units defending or attacking since the 'end of
>> major combat', which, by the way, was a statement requested by General
>> Franks as a salute to the troops.
>>
>> There have been more people murdered in the state of Texas since the
>> 'end of major combat' then American deaths in the entire Iraq war.
>> The same is true of California, so we have had over three times the
>> Iraqi death rate right here in only two states. Perspective is
>> important.
>
>Hey Matt, this is one of the better efforts at putting lipstick on a pig
>that I've seen in some time. A valiant effort indeed. There have also
>been more US soldiers killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat
>operations", so one wonders what mission was actually accomplished. You
>cite statistics in Texas and California. Texas has a population of over
>20 million. California has a population of over 34 million. The number
>of US soldiers in Iraq is around 138,000. So, if you get per capita
>death rates, I'm sure your comparison won't look so rosy. Never mind the
>fact that the "low" number of over 900 dead Americans means 900 grieving
>families who don't really care how the rate compares to Texas or
>California. As you say "perspective is important".
>
>
>
>> The battles for Fallujah, Najaf and Sadr city have been less than
>> stellar, primarily for political reasons. Now that the Iraqis can
>> take the heat, those holdouts will also end.
>
>Today the Iraqi governor of Najaf placed Iraqi police and national guard
>units under the command of US forces and gave the Americans permission
>to enter the Shrine of Ali, the holiest mosque to Shia muslims. It will
>be Americans taking the heat if that happens.
It is the Iraqis ordering the operation. The Iraqis will take the heat
for the operation. The Americans will, as usual, take the casualties.
>> Iraq has more water, more power and is shipping more oil than pre-war
>> levels.
>
>Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
>
>> Most schools have been rebuilt and opened. Most children are
>> attending school, most stores are open and life is back to 'normal'
>> for many of the Iraqis.
>
>This is greatly exaggerated. All these things were happening prior to
>the war anyway.
>
Sure it was.
>> The oil exports have been cut from 1.9 to 1.1 million barrels per day
>> to a damaged pipeline.
>>
>> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5919427
>
>Before the war, Iraq exported more than 2 million barrels per day. They
>haven't pumped anything the last two days and the only exports were from
>storage tanks.
Which is less than they're shipping today.
>Here is a current report from a reporter who previously was praising the
>reconstruction effort:
>
>http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/philly3.html
>
>"Most Iraqis aren't seeing the improvements they had hoped for, and
>they're not blaming the guerillas - they're blaming the Americans.
>Sovereignty seems to have had zero effect on this equation."
>
>"It's now August, and that goal still hasn't been reached. Throughout
>much of the country, the power goes off for half the day or more. That
>has meant another summer of babies sweltering in 120-degree apartments,
>of factories that can't run, of despair turning to hatred."
Before the war it was Baghdad that got all the power (whatever there
was), now it is more evenly distributed.
>"A near-total lack of visible progress has prompted even the most
>pro-Western Iraqis to lose faith in the capabilities - and worse, the
>intentions - of the United States."
Here, read somebody who has something to say (last March)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0319/p01s03-woiq.html
Iraq's vital signs one year later :
April 2003 March 2004
Electricity (megawatts per day; prewar level: 4,400)
3,000 4,200
Oil Production (millions of barrels/day; prewar level: 2.9)
0 2.5
Potable Water Supply
(millions liters/day; prewar level: 13)
4 22
Unemployment Rate (approx. prewar level: 50-60)
60% 45%
Health Budget (in millions)
$16 $950
(2002)
Teacher Salaries (monthly average
$40 $120
(2002)
One of the biggest problems in Iraq (much of the middle east,
actually) is the socialism. There is no industry (aside from the
military) and agricultural jobs are like everywhere else, minimal.
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait pay money from oil revenues for 'busy
work'. We fired the army (mistake in my opinion) so there just isn't
work to be had. Until we start paying people for busy work (rehire
the army) there are going to be complaints. This has nothing to do
with the Americans; nobody gave a damn before we came.
Just ask yourself where are the reports on Iraqi reconstruction? We
have them from 6 months ago, but none from today. Why is that? All
those big billion dollar projects are under way and we see no news;
why is that?
#158
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
Surely you and Bill aren't implying that ONLY those that has served in the
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>
#159
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
Surely you and Bill aren't implying that ONLY those that has served in the
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>
#160
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: OT - I just got this in my email and thought I would share
Surely you and Bill aren't implying that ONLY those that has served in the
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>
military has the right to complain about the politics and leadership of the
USA. While the choice to serve militarily is an honorable one, it is just
that, a CHOICE. The alternative based on your implication is a military
dictatorship.
Now, if you don't vote, and therefore do not involve yourself in the
political process, then I would agree that you don't have the right to
complain.
"CRWLR" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10hisfo1tj7vnf7@corp.supernews.com...
> I think that what Bill is saying here is, if you are going to complain
about
> how your country is being run, you should try standing in defense of it
> first, then complain later. At least Kerry got that part right.
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:41194CD7.B08DDD56@***.net...
> > By the way you write I can say you haven't give up a couple of
> > years for your country. Like I have in the ARMY. You're just dead
> > weight!
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Jeff wrote:
> > >
> > > I think Dan Quayle was thinking of you when he said:
> > >
> > > " What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is
being
> > > very wasteful. How true that is."
>
>