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Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
It is amazing how we are all fooled that Hydrogen just appears in a tank and
we will be able to fill our cars for free! Unless we come up with a great idea to separate Hydrogen from what it wants to combine with (Oxygen) we are SOL. I hope some great scientist can do this for less energy than it gives off when combining with oxygen again, but I am not holding my breath. I am a "Bush" supporter, but I am not a supporter of the hydrogen fuel initiatives. I would rather see more scientific research into making 60 mpg diesels. Jetta has a 50 mpg diesel! Why would you buy an electric hybrid with all the motors and associated electronics to go wrong when you can buy a VW diesel that gets nearly the same gas mileage and any diesel mechanic can work on it ?! I am an electrical engineer and I am scared to try to troubleshoot an electric hybrid. And the batteries...don't get me going (more pollution than burning good old gas). Now, for all the taxis in NYC - it would be great if they ran on something less polluting. Natural Gas - that may be the answer. Curtis "griffin" <gryffy@DELTHISshaw.ca> wrote in message news:7u7jd.134200$%k.43633@pd7tw2no... > > Do your homework before you tiptoe off thru lala land. Your first > > assignment is to discover where that hydrogen comes from and how it > > is extracted. > > Main sources: natural gas, coal, biomass, water. Look to the future, bright > eyes ...water. > > > > Then continue to discover what happens to a mixture > > of hydrogen and ordinary air as the hydrogen is burned and whether > > the resulting products are pure water as suggested by the scientific > > illiterate or something a bit less pristine as happens in the real > > world. > > When created through natural gas extraction, yes there are pollutants. When > used to power a fuel cell to run an engine, it's only real byproduct is > water. Very low pollution all around though when compared to current > methods - but it needs to be developed for an efficient mass-scale. > > > > And for the grand finale, compute the total cycle energy > > costs of actually producing and distributing all that hydrogen. > > I believe H has the highest energy content by weight of any available fuel > and when they can efficiently produce, store, and use it ...it will be alot > easier on the enviro than any currently used fuel. Especially when you > consider the amount of energy and fuel used to transport oil barrels from > overseas (not even including the damage done by spills). > > > Then take another look at the energy densities available with ordinary > old > > lowly gasoline scrubbed clean by a cat convertor. > > For now. It's like trying to explain the benefits of steam over coal to an > 1820's train operator. Give it time. > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand
for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on biodiesel. "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > when > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit >> question > not >> a troll. >> >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't >> it >> cheaper than gasoline? >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand
for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on biodiesel. "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > when > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit >> question > not >> a troll. >> >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't >> it >> cheaper than gasoline? >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand
for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on biodiesel. "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > when > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit >> question > not >> a troll. >> >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't >> it >> cheaper than gasoline? >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
If everyone tried to turn old burger grease into fuel, the burger
grease supply would vanish. The OBG supply of the entire nation for a year wouldn't run LA for two days. But that's irrelevant to whether it makes sense for anyone to do it. If you are the only person in a small town or on the block in a city and you can get the OBG free and you want to do it for a hobby or out of curiosity that's well and fine. In some areas OBG costs McD's money to haul it off. One or two OBG burners could save everyone money then. But if it was all dollars and cents why do you have a four wheel drive when a Honda Civic is cheaper and taking the bus cheaper yet? |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
If everyone tried to turn old burger grease into fuel, the burger
grease supply would vanish. The OBG supply of the entire nation for a year wouldn't run LA for two days. But that's irrelevant to whether it makes sense for anyone to do it. If you are the only person in a small town or on the block in a city and you can get the OBG free and you want to do it for a hobby or out of curiosity that's well and fine. In some areas OBG costs McD's money to haul it off. One or two OBG burners could save everyone money then. But if it was all dollars and cents why do you have a four wheel drive when a Honda Civic is cheaper and taking the bus cheaper yet? |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
If everyone tried to turn old burger grease into fuel, the burger
grease supply would vanish. The OBG supply of the entire nation for a year wouldn't run LA for two days. But that's irrelevant to whether it makes sense for anyone to do it. If you are the only person in a small town or on the block in a city and you can get the OBG free and you want to do it for a hobby or out of curiosity that's well and fine. In some areas OBG costs McD's money to haul it off. One or two OBG burners could save everyone money then. But if it was all dollars and cents why do you have a four wheel drive when a Honda Civic is cheaper and taking the bus cheaper yet? |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
All of that is all well and good, but it ignores the facts that refiners
have made a conscious effort to cut back production and storage, thereby limiting supply in order to raise prices. OK, maybe the conscious effort wasn't all that conscious, maybe it is reflective of regulatory mandates as well as mergers among the refineries and shippers. In any case, without any regulation otherwise, why would anybody sell two for a dollar when they can get away with selling one for two dollars? Why sell a gallon for a dollar when they can sell a half gallon for two dollars? In any case, don't hold your breath waiting for energy prices to fall - ANY energy prices. They will only go up from here. "SoK66" <SoK66@frontier.net> wrote in message news:cmr8vq02oet@enews1.newsguy.com... > Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand > for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast > fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil > prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the > hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used > to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the > same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on > biodiesel. > > > "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message > news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > > when > > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... > >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit > >> question > > not > >> a troll. > >> > >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't > >> it > >> cheaper than gasoline? > >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > > > > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
All of that is all well and good, but it ignores the facts that refiners
have made a conscious effort to cut back production and storage, thereby limiting supply in order to raise prices. OK, maybe the conscious effort wasn't all that conscious, maybe it is reflective of regulatory mandates as well as mergers among the refineries and shippers. In any case, without any regulation otherwise, why would anybody sell two for a dollar when they can get away with selling one for two dollars? Why sell a gallon for a dollar when they can sell a half gallon for two dollars? In any case, don't hold your breath waiting for energy prices to fall - ANY energy prices. They will only go up from here. "SoK66" <SoK66@frontier.net> wrote in message news:cmr8vq02oet@enews1.newsguy.com... > Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand > for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast > fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil > prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the > hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used > to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the > same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on > biodiesel. > > > "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message > news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > > when > > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... > >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit > >> question > > not > >> a troll. > >> > >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't > >> it > >> cheaper than gasoline? > >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > > > > > |
Re: diesel fuel: why isn't it cheaper than gasoline?
All of that is all well and good, but it ignores the facts that refiners
have made a conscious effort to cut back production and storage, thereby limiting supply in order to raise prices. OK, maybe the conscious effort wasn't all that conscious, maybe it is reflective of regulatory mandates as well as mergers among the refineries and shippers. In any case, without any regulation otherwise, why would anybody sell two for a dollar when they can get away with selling one for two dollars? Why sell a gallon for a dollar when they can sell a half gallon for two dollars? In any case, don't hold your breath waiting for energy prices to fall - ANY energy prices. They will only go up from here. "SoK66" <SoK66@frontier.net> wrote in message news:cmr8vq02oet@enews1.newsguy.com... > Home heating oil and diesel are virtually the same. There is always demand > for the former in the winter nmonths when the old homes in the Northeast > fire up their oil burning furnaces. This year it's compounded by high oil > prices, and damage to platforms and refineries in the Gulf states due to the > hurricanes. The pricing is giving a boost to bio-diesel producers, who used > to have a big pricing disadvantage. However, here it's now virtually the > same. Local scuttlebutt from diesel pickup drivers has been very positive on > biodiesel. > > > "Jeff Strickland" <spamcatcher@yahoo.net> wrote in message > news:10ovslh8a1hvu31@corp.supernews.com... > > Because of Supply and Demand. The refiners keep the supply low in order to > > keep prices high. Why would they make a gallon and sell it for a dollar > > when > > they can make a half-gallon and sell it for two dollars? > > > > > > > > > > "Wblane" <wblane@aol.combotizer> wrote in message > > news:20041104165622.06439.00000105@mb-m18.aol.com... > >> If you don't want to read this thread then don't. This is a legit > >> question > > not > >> a troll. > >> > >> I always though diesel fuel was less refined than gasoline so why isn't > >> it > >> cheaper than gasoline? > >> -Bill (remove "botizer" to reply via email) > > > > > > |
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