Ted Azito

andrewmuaddib@hotmail.com (Andrew) wrote in message news:<8b5c891c.0406211027.39069fed@posting.google. com>...
> I hate to burst your bubble, but the quality of diesel fuel in the US
> is remarkably poor compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.

Lower than _automotive_ fuel sold in the _EU_. ROW means the former
Soviet Union, South America, Africa, India, Asia, few of which have
ULSD. Most have poorer specs than the US. Japan may have ULSD but
Korea,Taiwan, Thailand, the PI definitely don't.

> So those really awesome highly engineered diesel engines
You mean the full-FADEC, common rail engines sold mostly for
automotive use, such as VM and BMW and-surprisingly-Fiat. These aren't
used for industrial/commercial use anywhere (yet) and are not what
he's talking about. He's referring to the engines sold here for fifty
years and used in automotive markets up until a few years ago in the
EU and still for Second/Third/Fourth World export.

sold for the
> European market will not run as well as they are intended, and they
> have significantly more internal deposits and degradation than had
> they been run with the quality fuel they were designed for. That is
> not to say, at all, that they will be a poor investment.
>
> Also, diesel engines have historically been heavier than gasoline
> engines. This has changed dramatically with better technology, so
> they may be close to, or the same weight as a gasoline engine. But
> without the quality of fuel they were designed for, don't expect the
> same performance or longevity as what they get over in Europe. They
> may (I don't know) get better gas mileage even with poorer quality
> fuel over here.

They are heavier-but within the weight ,say, a TJ could handle
>
> And third, to answer the assinine response to your post, live and let
> live. Some people like V8's, and love working on them.

Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. He's talking about
others.Gas is expensive, diesels are available,for some people a
diesel swap is definitely highly desirable. Probably he's a little
frustrated.

It's easy to
> find parts, stroke them, etc, and they are readily available. Nobody
> has a right to tell you the way you build your Jeep is wrong, and it's
> childish and obnoxious to lay a blanket stereotype of anyone who
> thinks differently than you as a drunken, high school dropout redneck.

No one is saying they are.
> Most of those people you just slammed have far more civility,
> dignity, kindness, and helpfulness than you just displayed.

Some do, some don't. I don't think the first poster meant to say that
and I didn't either-I was speculating on what Novak was thinking. You
have to admit a certain segment of the market (as with any market),
not all, isn't too bright. A manufacturer has to take that into
account before plowing new territory, and it's the natural impulse of
sales management to steer customers to what is on the shelf now rather
than something they might want but which needs R&D.

OTOH Novak is just printing information that isn't so-diesel swaps
are possible and the fuel quality thing is a red herring with the
kinds of engines most potential swappers intend to use-the kind which
would be impacted are not available in the US at this time, and
require an ECU and harness (also not available) and which forfeit the
prime advantage of diesel-no electrics needed. Novak had to know this
and if they put up stuff like that, yes, people are going to get a
little bit upset, or think Novak must be stupid.

I guess I'm saying-I know what Novak is doing, but, they are probably
using poor judgment in posting information they have to know is not
correct.

Ted Azito

andrewmuaddib@hotmail.com (Andrew) wrote in message news:<8b5c891c.0406211027.39069fed@posting.google. com>...
> I hate to burst your bubble, but the quality of diesel fuel in the US
> is remarkably poor compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.

Lower than _automotive_ fuel sold in the _EU_. ROW means the former
Soviet Union, South America, Africa, India, Asia, few of which have
ULSD. Most have poorer specs than the US. Japan may have ULSD but
Korea,Taiwan, Thailand, the PI definitely don't.

> So those really awesome highly engineered diesel engines
You mean the full-FADEC, common rail engines sold mostly for
automotive use, such as VM and BMW and-surprisingly-Fiat. These aren't
used for industrial/commercial use anywhere (yet) and are not what
he's talking about. He's referring to the engines sold here for fifty
years and used in automotive markets up until a few years ago in the
EU and still for Second/Third/Fourth World export.

sold for the
> European market will not run as well as they are intended, and they
> have significantly more internal deposits and degradation than had
> they been run with the quality fuel they were designed for. That is
> not to say, at all, that they will be a poor investment.
>
> Also, diesel engines have historically been heavier than gasoline
> engines. This has changed dramatically with better technology, so
> they may be close to, or the same weight as a gasoline engine. But
> without the quality of fuel they were designed for, don't expect the
> same performance or longevity as what they get over in Europe. They
> may (I don't know) get better gas mileage even with poorer quality
> fuel over here.

They are heavier-but within the weight ,say, a TJ could handle
>
> And third, to answer the assinine response to your post, live and let
> live. Some people like V8's, and love working on them.

Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. He's talking about
others.Gas is expensive, diesels are available,for some people a
diesel swap is definitely highly desirable. Probably he's a little
frustrated.

It's easy to
> find parts, stroke them, etc, and they are readily available. Nobody
> has a right to tell you the way you build your Jeep is wrong, and it's
> childish and obnoxious to lay a blanket stereotype of anyone who
> thinks differently than you as a drunken, high school dropout redneck.

No one is saying they are.
> Most of those people you just slammed have far more civility,
> dignity, kindness, and helpfulness than you just displayed.

Some do, some don't. I don't think the first poster meant to say that
and I didn't either-I was speculating on what Novak was thinking. You
have to admit a certain segment of the market (as with any market),
not all, isn't too bright. A manufacturer has to take that into
account before plowing new territory, and it's the natural impulse of
sales management to steer customers to what is on the shelf now rather
than something they might want but which needs R&D.

OTOH Novak is just printing information that isn't so-diesel swaps
are possible and the fuel quality thing is a red herring with the
kinds of engines most potential swappers intend to use-the kind which
would be impacted are not available in the US at this time, and
require an ECU and harness (also not available) and which forfeit the
prime advantage of diesel-no electrics needed. Novak had to know this
and if they put up stuff like that, yes, people are going to get a
little bit upset, or think Novak must be stupid.

I guess I'm saying-I know what Novak is doing, but, they are probably
using poor judgment in posting information they have to know is not
correct.