Paul Calman did pass the time by typing:
>>> and guns
>>
>> And donuts!
>
>
> They didn't offer us any when we were picketing the US Forestry office
> yesterday, but they did offer us sodas.

Sodas are good.

My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.

----

OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of them.
One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
so I sent some donuts to his office.

..one gross...

Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^

--
DougW

 

Paul Calman did pass the time by typing:
>>> and guns
>>
>> And donuts!
>
>
> They didn't offer us any when we were picketing the US Forestry office
> yesterday, but they did offer us sodas.

Sodas are good.

My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.

----

OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of them.
One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
so I sent some donuts to his office.

..one gross...

Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^

--
DougW

 

Paul Calman did pass the time by typing:
>>> and guns
>>
>> And donuts!
>
>
> They didn't offer us any when we were picketing the US Forestry office
> yesterday, but they did offer us sodas.

Sodas are good.

My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.

----

OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of them.
One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
so I sent some donuts to his office.

..one gross...

Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^

--
DougW

 

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message

: My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
: to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
: areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.
:
: ----
:
: OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of
them.
: One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
: so I sent some donuts to his office.
:
: ..one gross...
:
: Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^
:

Hey Doug, we were all young and stupid... now I'm older and... anyway, it
must be a bitch to find gloves for your three hands.

-Brian

 

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message

: My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
: to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
: areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.
:
: ----
:
: OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of
them.
: One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
: so I sent some donuts to his office.
:
: ..one gross...
:
: Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^
:

Hey Doug, we were all young and stupid... now I'm older and... anyway, it
must be a bitch to find gloves for your three hands.

-Brian

 

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message

: My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
: to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
: areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.
:
: ----
:
: OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of
them.
: One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
: so I sent some donuts to his office.
:
: ..one gross...
:
: Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^
:

Hey Doug, we were all young and stupid... now I'm older and... anyway, it
must be a bitch to find gloves for your three hands.

-Brian

 

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message

: My emotions are mixed on this issue. On one hand I agree that folks need
: to keep to established trails. On the other I think there needs to be
: areas where the general public can try there equipment and nerves.
:
: ----
:
: OTOH, I've never seen a cop part with a donut, and I work with some of
them.
: One Sherrif I knew from way back in my "younger and stupider" days retired
: so I sent some donuts to his office.
:
: ..one gross...
:
: Somewhere around here I have a citation for being a real bastard. ^_^
:

Hey Doug, we were all young and stupid... now I'm older and... anyway, it
must be a bitch to find gloves for your three hands.

-Brian

 

Both.

The one area we did the clean is sort of private with absentee land
owners and a bunch others, one just east of you near Minden was crown
they put to a provincial park with no vehicle traffic and another lake
they posted no camping within 100 yd or so, all 'totally' caused by 4x4
********!

Mike

SB wrote:
>
> Was that place privately owned Mike?
> what was done to "close" the area?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40EDC3F8.B3D5B12@sympatico.ca...
> > I agree with them though....
> >
> > There are enough old trails that making new ones to just tear up the
> > place is BS.
> >
> > We call it 'Tread Lightly'.
> >
> > Areas up here in southern Canada are getting closed totally because of
> > Yahoos tearing it up and littering. Way too many areas to!!!!
> >
> > A bunch of us from this newsgroup got together for a big clean up of one
> > local area and it got messed back up so fast it is now closed. Bummer,
> > it was our 'day trip' area.
> >
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291902217
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > HarryS wrote:
> > >
> > > Sounds like the tree ***** have struck again.
> > >
> > > --
> > > HarryS
> > > JAFGBR
> > > JAFTJO
> > > "KC" <kcmidget@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ZjcHc.17138$Bv.1740775@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > > Off-roaders may be tied to trails
> > > > Forest riders who go cross-country would be outlaws
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Published July 08. 2004 7:30AM
> > > >
> > > > BY BILL THOMPSON
> > > > STAFF WRITER
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OCALA - Federal foresters proposed a new regulation on Wednesday for
> > > > off-highway vehicles in national forests and grasslands in an effort
> to
> > > cut
> > > > down on habitat destruction caused by outlaw trail riders.
> > > >
> > > > The proposed regulation will force 176 federal recreation areas around
> the
> > > > country to identify individual systems of designated trails, roads and
> > > areas
> > > > where motor vehicles will be allowed to travel.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line for off-highway vehicle enthusiasts is that "cross
> country
> > > > travel won't be allowed once this rule becomes final," said Jack
> Troyer,
> > > > regional forester for the U.S. Forest Service's Intermountain Region
> and
> > > > leader of the agency team that developed the new rule.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer and other officials who participated in a nationwide conference
> > > call
> > > > announcing the rule on Wednesday acknowledged that the agency's
> attempt to
> > > > establish something that now doesn't exist - a consistent policy
> regarding
> > > > off-highway vehicles, or OHVs, that puts the Forest Service on the
> same
> > > page
> > > > across the country - might create a ruckus in some areas where OHVs
> can
> > > > travel cross-country unfettered.
> > > >
> > > > But the announcement seems to hold little impact on Florida, home to
> three
> > > > national forests, including the nearly 400,000-acre Ocala National
> Forest.
> > > >
> > > > That's because OHV trail networks were already in the works for them.
> > > > Roberta Moltzen, deputy regional forester for 13 states across the
> South,
> > > > said agency staff in Florida will simply "keep on with what they've
> been
> > > > doing" in defining those areas.
> > > >
> > > > Denise Raines, Forest Service spokeswoman in Tallahassee, said
> > > > environmental-impact guidelines, including for OHV use, have already
> been
> > > > set for the Osceola National Forest near Lake City.
> > > >
> > > > A similar document for the Ocala National Forest is expected to be
> > > completed
> > > > next month, although it will cover only about half of the forest. The
> > > review
> > > > of the rest of the forest should be finished next year.
> > > >
> > > > The Forest Service has already banned some OHV activity in the Ocala
> > > > National Forest. In January, a rule went into effect limiting
> unlicensed
> > > > OHVs to daylight use only, defined as 90 minutes or less before
> sunrise
> > > and
> > > > not later than 90 minutes after sunset.
> > > >
> > > > Overall, the 155 national forests and 21 federal grasslands already
> have
> > > > guidelines pertaining to OHV use, officials said. But those rules vary
> as
> > > > widely as the areas they serve.
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of the new proposal is to protect federal lands by
> preventing
> > > > the proliferation of impromptu "user-created" roads and trails left by
> the
> > > > small percentage of outlaw visitors taking part in the explosion of
> OHV
> > > use
> > > > on federal lands, Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > While OHV users made up only 5 percent of the total number of visitors
> to
> > > > national forests and grasslands in 2002, their overall numbers had
> swollen
> > > > from 5 million in 1972 to 36 million in 2000.
> > > >
> > > > OHVs include motor vehicles designed or retrofitted primarily for
> > > > recreational use off road, such as minibikes, amphibious vehicles,
> > > > snowmobiles, motorcycles, go-carts, motorized trail bikes and dune
> > > buggies.
> > > > It also includes sport utility vehicles and all-terrain vehicles.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer acknowledged that enforcement will be a problem, largely
> because of
> > > > constraints on the agency's $4 billion annual budget. But the Forest
> > > Service
> > > > will rely on volunteers and other users to help report violators.
> > > >
> > > > Raines said the current "spaghetti system of trails" in the Ocala
> National
> > > > Forest needs to be straightened out and structured to protect animal
> > > habitat
> > > > and environmentally sensitive areas and to help other visitors who
> seek
> > > > tranquility to enjoy the forest.
> > > >
> > > > The public has 60 days to comment on the proposed rule. Such comments
> may
> > > be
> > > > sent to: Proposed Rule for Designated Routes and Areas for Motor
> Vehicle
> > > > Use, Content Analysis Team, P.O. Box 221150, Salt Lake City, UT
> > > 84122-1150.
> > > > Remarks will be accepted by e-mail to or by fax to (801) 517-1014.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer said the individual forests and grasslands will each develop a
> > > "user
> > > > map," which will become the governing document of OHV use in those
> areas.
> > > > While some may finish defining their OHV areas in as little as a year,
> > > > others could take up to four years. And the public will be allowed to
> make
> > > > its input known for each one.
> > > >
> > > > "Designated routes, local decision-making is really at the heart of
> what
> > > > we're trying to do," Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Thompson covers county government and can be reached at 867-4117
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of
> > > > the new proposal
> > > > is to protect federal lands by preventing the proliferation
> > > >
> > > > of "user-created" roads and trails left by outlaw visitors taking part
> in
> > > > the explosion of OHV use on federal lands.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

 

Both.

The one area we did the clean is sort of private with absentee land
owners and a bunch others, one just east of you near Minden was crown
they put to a provincial park with no vehicle traffic and another lake
they posted no camping within 100 yd or so, all 'totally' caused by 4x4
********!

Mike

SB wrote:
>
> Was that place privately owned Mike?
> what was done to "close" the area?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40EDC3F8.B3D5B12@sympatico.ca...
> > I agree with them though....
> >
> > There are enough old trails that making new ones to just tear up the
> > place is BS.
> >
> > We call it 'Tread Lightly'.
> >
> > Areas up here in southern Canada are getting closed totally because of
> > Yahoos tearing it up and littering. Way too many areas to!!!!
> >
> > A bunch of us from this newsgroup got together for a big clean up of one
> > local area and it got messed back up so fast it is now closed. Bummer,
> > it was our 'day trip' area.
> >
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291902217
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > HarryS wrote:
> > >
> > > Sounds like the tree ***** have struck again.
> > >
> > > --
> > > HarryS
> > > JAFGBR
> > > JAFTJO
> > > "KC" <kcmidget@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ZjcHc.17138$Bv.1740775@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > > Off-roaders may be tied to trails
> > > > Forest riders who go cross-country would be outlaws
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Published July 08. 2004 7:30AM
> > > >
> > > > BY BILL THOMPSON
> > > > STAFF WRITER
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OCALA - Federal foresters proposed a new regulation on Wednesday for
> > > > off-highway vehicles in national forests and grasslands in an effort
> to
> > > cut
> > > > down on habitat destruction caused by outlaw trail riders.
> > > >
> > > > The proposed regulation will force 176 federal recreation areas around
> the
> > > > country to identify individual systems of designated trails, roads and
> > > areas
> > > > where motor vehicles will be allowed to travel.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line for off-highway vehicle enthusiasts is that "cross
> country
> > > > travel won't be allowed once this rule becomes final," said Jack
> Troyer,
> > > > regional forester for the U.S. Forest Service's Intermountain Region
> and
> > > > leader of the agency team that developed the new rule.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer and other officials who participated in a nationwide conference
> > > call
> > > > announcing the rule on Wednesday acknowledged that the agency's
> attempt to
> > > > establish something that now doesn't exist - a consistent policy
> regarding
> > > > off-highway vehicles, or OHVs, that puts the Forest Service on the
> same
> > > page
> > > > across the country - might create a ruckus in some areas where OHVs
> can
> > > > travel cross-country unfettered.
> > > >
> > > > But the announcement seems to hold little impact on Florida, home to
> three
> > > > national forests, including the nearly 400,000-acre Ocala National
> Forest.
> > > >
> > > > That's because OHV trail networks were already in the works for them.
> > > > Roberta Moltzen, deputy regional forester for 13 states across the
> South,
> > > > said agency staff in Florida will simply "keep on with what they've
> been
> > > > doing" in defining those areas.
> > > >
> > > > Denise Raines, Forest Service spokeswoman in Tallahassee, said
> > > > environmental-impact guidelines, including for OHV use, have already
> been
> > > > set for the Osceola National Forest near Lake City.
> > > >
> > > > A similar document for the Ocala National Forest is expected to be
> > > completed
> > > > next month, although it will cover only about half of the forest. The
> > > review
> > > > of the rest of the forest should be finished next year.
> > > >
> > > > The Forest Service has already banned some OHV activity in the Ocala
> > > > National Forest. In January, a rule went into effect limiting
> unlicensed
> > > > OHVs to daylight use only, defined as 90 minutes or less before
> sunrise
> > > and
> > > > not later than 90 minutes after sunset.
> > > >
> > > > Overall, the 155 national forests and 21 federal grasslands already
> have
> > > > guidelines pertaining to OHV use, officials said. But those rules vary
> as
> > > > widely as the areas they serve.
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of the new proposal is to protect federal lands by
> preventing
> > > > the proliferation of impromptu "user-created" roads and trails left by
> the
> > > > small percentage of outlaw visitors taking part in the explosion of
> OHV
> > > use
> > > > on federal lands, Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > While OHV users made up only 5 percent of the total number of visitors
> to
> > > > national forests and grasslands in 2002, their overall numbers had
> swollen
> > > > from 5 million in 1972 to 36 million in 2000.
> > > >
> > > > OHVs include motor vehicles designed or retrofitted primarily for
> > > > recreational use off road, such as minibikes, amphibious vehicles,
> > > > snowmobiles, motorcycles, go-carts, motorized trail bikes and dune
> > > buggies.
> > > > It also includes sport utility vehicles and all-terrain vehicles.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer acknowledged that enforcement will be a problem, largely
> because of
> > > > constraints on the agency's $4 billion annual budget. But the Forest
> > > Service
> > > > will rely on volunteers and other users to help report violators.
> > > >
> > > > Raines said the current "spaghetti system of trails" in the Ocala
> National
> > > > Forest needs to be straightened out and structured to protect animal
> > > habitat
> > > > and environmentally sensitive areas and to help other visitors who
> seek
> > > > tranquility to enjoy the forest.
> > > >
> > > > The public has 60 days to comment on the proposed rule. Such comments
> may
> > > be
> > > > sent to: Proposed Rule for Designated Routes and Areas for Motor
> Vehicle
> > > > Use, Content Analysis Team, P.O. Box 221150, Salt Lake City, UT
> > > 84122-1150.
> > > > Remarks will be accepted by e-mail to or by fax to (801) 517-1014.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer said the individual forests and grasslands will each develop a
> > > "user
> > > > map," which will become the governing document of OHV use in those
> areas.
> > > > While some may finish defining their OHV areas in as little as a year,
> > > > others could take up to four years. And the public will be allowed to
> make
> > > > its input known for each one.
> > > >
> > > > "Designated routes, local decision-making is really at the heart of
> what
> > > > we're trying to do," Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Thompson covers county government and can be reached at 867-4117
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of
> > > > the new proposal
> > > > is to protect federal lands by preventing the proliferation
> > > >
> > > > of "user-created" roads and trails left by outlaw visitors taking part
> in
> > > > the explosion of OHV use on federal lands.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

 

Both.

The one area we did the clean is sort of private with absentee land
owners and a bunch others, one just east of you near Minden was crown
they put to a provincial park with no vehicle traffic and another lake
they posted no camping within 100 yd or so, all 'totally' caused by 4x4
********!

Mike

SB wrote:
>
> Was that place privately owned Mike?
> what was done to "close" the area?
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:40EDC3F8.B3D5B12@sympatico.ca...
> > I agree with them though....
> >
> > There are enough old trails that making new ones to just tear up the
> > place is BS.
> >
> > We call it 'Tread Lightly'.
> >
> > Areas up here in southern Canada are getting closed totally because of
> > Yahoos tearing it up and littering. Way too many areas to!!!!
> >
> > A bunch of us from this newsgroup got together for a big clean up of one
> > local area and it got messed back up so fast it is now closed. Bummer,
> > it was our 'day trip' area.
> >
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291902217
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > HarryS wrote:
> > >
> > > Sounds like the tree ***** have struck again.
> > >
> > > --
> > > HarryS
> > > JAFGBR
> > > JAFTJO
> > > "KC" <kcmidget@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:ZjcHc.17138$Bv.1740775@twister.tampabay.rr.co m...
> > > > Off-roaders may be tied to trails
> > > > Forest riders who go cross-country would be outlaws
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Published July 08. 2004 7:30AM
> > > >
> > > > BY BILL THOMPSON
> > > > STAFF WRITER
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OCALA - Federal foresters proposed a new regulation on Wednesday for
> > > > off-highway vehicles in national forests and grasslands in an effort
> to
> > > cut
> > > > down on habitat destruction caused by outlaw trail riders.
> > > >
> > > > The proposed regulation will force 176 federal recreation areas around
> the
> > > > country to identify individual systems of designated trails, roads and
> > > areas
> > > > where motor vehicles will be allowed to travel.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line for off-highway vehicle enthusiasts is that "cross
> country
> > > > travel won't be allowed once this rule becomes final," said Jack
> Troyer,
> > > > regional forester for the U.S. Forest Service's Intermountain Region
> and
> > > > leader of the agency team that developed the new rule.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer and other officials who participated in a nationwide conference
> > > call
> > > > announcing the rule on Wednesday acknowledged that the agency's
> attempt to
> > > > establish something that now doesn't exist - a consistent policy
> regarding
> > > > off-highway vehicles, or OHVs, that puts the Forest Service on the
> same
> > > page
> > > > across the country - might create a ruckus in some areas where OHVs
> can
> > > > travel cross-country unfettered.
> > > >
> > > > But the announcement seems to hold little impact on Florida, home to
> three
> > > > national forests, including the nearly 400,000-acre Ocala National
> Forest.
> > > >
> > > > That's because OHV trail networks were already in the works for them.
> > > > Roberta Moltzen, deputy regional forester for 13 states across the
> South,
> > > > said agency staff in Florida will simply "keep on with what they've
> been
> > > > doing" in defining those areas.
> > > >
> > > > Denise Raines, Forest Service spokeswoman in Tallahassee, said
> > > > environmental-impact guidelines, including for OHV use, have already
> been
> > > > set for the Osceola National Forest near Lake City.
> > > >
> > > > A similar document for the Ocala National Forest is expected to be
> > > completed
> > > > next month, although it will cover only about half of the forest. The
> > > review
> > > > of the rest of the forest should be finished next year.
> > > >
> > > > The Forest Service has already banned some OHV activity in the Ocala
> > > > National Forest. In January, a rule went into effect limiting
> unlicensed
> > > > OHVs to daylight use only, defined as 90 minutes or less before
> sunrise
> > > and
> > > > not later than 90 minutes after sunset.
> > > >
> > > > Overall, the 155 national forests and 21 federal grasslands already
> have
> > > > guidelines pertaining to OHV use, officials said. But those rules vary
> as
> > > > widely as the areas they serve.
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of the new proposal is to protect federal lands by
> preventing
> > > > the proliferation of impromptu "user-created" roads and trails left by
> the
> > > > small percentage of outlaw visitors taking part in the explosion of
> OHV
> > > use
> > > > on federal lands, Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > While OHV users made up only 5 percent of the total number of visitors
> to
> > > > national forests and grasslands in 2002, their overall numbers had
> swollen
> > > > from 5 million in 1972 to 36 million in 2000.
> > > >
> > > > OHVs include motor vehicles designed or retrofitted primarily for
> > > > recreational use off road, such as minibikes, amphibious vehicles,
> > > > snowmobiles, motorcycles, go-carts, motorized trail bikes and dune
> > > buggies.
> > > > It also includes sport utility vehicles and all-terrain vehicles.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer acknowledged that enforcement will be a problem, largely
> because of
> > > > constraints on the agency's $4 billion annual budget. But the Forest
> > > Service
> > > > will rely on volunteers and other users to help report violators.
> > > >
> > > > Raines said the current "spaghetti system of trails" in the Ocala
> National
> > > > Forest needs to be straightened out and structured to protect animal
> > > habitat
> > > > and environmentally sensitive areas and to help other visitors who
> seek
> > > > tranquility to enjoy the forest.
> > > >
> > > > The public has 60 days to comment on the proposed rule. Such comments
> may
> > > be
> > > > sent to: Proposed Rule for Designated Routes and Areas for Motor
> Vehicle
> > > > Use, Content Analysis Team, P.O. Box 221150, Salt Lake City, UT
> > > 84122-1150.
> > > > Remarks will be accepted by e-mail to or by fax to (801) 517-1014.
> > > >
> > > > Troyer said the individual forests and grasslands will each develop a
> > > "user
> > > > map," which will become the governing document of OHV use in those
> areas.
> > > > While some may finish defining their OHV areas in as little as a year,
> > > > others could take up to four years. And the public will be allowed to
> make
> > > > its input known for each one.
> > > >
> > > > "Designated routes, local decision-making is really at the heart of
> what
> > > > we're trying to do," Troyer said.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Thompson covers county government and can be reached at 867-4117
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of
> > > > the new proposal
> > > > is to protect federal lands by preventing the proliferation
> > > >
> > > > of "user-created" roads and trails left by outlaw visitors taking part
> in
> > > > the explosion of OHV use on federal lands.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >