new wrangler - ug
 

i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
the first land rover started out as a jeep!).

im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
contract expires)

THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
running gear.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
> recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
> new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
> see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
> takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
> jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
> argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
> will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
> jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
> fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
> to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
> the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
> im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
> ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
> almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
> true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
> the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
> line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
> contract expires)
>
> THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
running gear.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
> recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
> new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
> see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
> takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
> jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
> argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
> will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
> jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
> fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
> to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
> the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
> im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
> ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
> almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
> true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
> the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
> line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
> contract expires)
>
> THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
running gear.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
> recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
> new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
> see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
> takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
> jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
> argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
> will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
> jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
> fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
> to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
> the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
> im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
> ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
> almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
> true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
> the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
> line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
> contract expires)
>
> THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
running gear.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
> recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
> new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
> see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
> takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
> jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
> argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
> will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
> jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
> fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
> to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
> the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
> im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
> ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
> almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
> true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
> the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
> line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
> contract expires)
>
> THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:24:19 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
>im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
>ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
>almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
>true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
>the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
>line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
>contract expires)
>
>THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
than the other.
Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
Grand Cherokee?

I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
right?

Just trying to learn more and more.
Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:24:19 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
>im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
>ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
>almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
>true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
>the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
>line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
>contract expires)
>
>THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
than the other.
Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
Grand Cherokee?

I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
right?

Just trying to learn more and more.
Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:24:19 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
>im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
>ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
>almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
>true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
>the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
>line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
>contract expires)
>
>THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
than the other.
Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
Grand Cherokee?

I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
right?

Just trying to learn more and more.
Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:24:19 -0600, "Nathan W. Collier"
<Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote:

>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>
>im not saying this is a bad thing because i hold a high respect for him, but
>ive never felt more like bill. this thing just is not a "real" jeep. i
>almost would have preferred the awful willys concept, at least it remained
>true to the overall size of a SWB jeep. this is just one of many flops on
>the horizon for DC (like dropping the cummins engine from the dodge truck
>line in favor of a mercedes diesel sometime around 2010 after the cummins
>contract expires)
>
>THAT SAID, my cj7 build is looking better and better and better.

Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
than the other.
Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
Grand Cherokee?

I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
right?

Just trying to learn more and more.
Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
boot or the height of a regular live axle:
http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
get stuck on a road:
http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
with Real leaf springs.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

QX wrote:
>
> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
> than the other.
> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
> Grand Cherokee?
>
> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
> right?
>
> Just trying to learn more and more.
> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
boot or the height of a regular live axle:
http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
get stuck on a road:
http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
with Real leaf springs.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

QX wrote:
>
> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
> than the other.
> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
> Grand Cherokee?
>
> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
> right?
>
> Just trying to learn more and more.
> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
boot or the height of a regular live axle:
http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
get stuck on a road:
http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
with Real leaf springs.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

QX wrote:
>
> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
> than the other.
> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
> Grand Cherokee?
>
> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
> right?
>
> Just trying to learn more and more.
> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
boot or the height of a regular live axle:
http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
get stuck on a road:
http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
with Real leaf springs.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

QX wrote:
>
> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
> than the other.
> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
> Grand Cherokee?
>
> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
> right?
>
> Just trying to learn more and more.
> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

http://www.----------.com/89thunderb...Suspension.jpg

> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

http://www.----------.com/89thunderb...Suspension.jpg

> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

http://www.----------.com/89thunderb...Suspension.jpg

> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

http://www.----------.com/89thunderb...Suspension.jpg

> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED0F72.29CB70DC@cox.net...
> Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
> running gear.

i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
that shows it if youre interested.

--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED0F72.29CB70DC@cox.net...
> Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
> running gear.

i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
that shows it if youre interested.

--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED0F72.29CB70DC@cox.net...
> Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
> running gear.

i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
that shows it if youre interested.

--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED0F72.29CB70DC@cox.net...
> Not many know the first Land Rover was built on a Jeep chassis and
> running gear.

i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
that shows it if youre interested.

--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com
http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html


"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED216D.7A2D1AAB@cox.net...
> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> QX wrote:
>>
>> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
>> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
>> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
>> than the other.
>> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
>> Grand Cherokee?
>>
>> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
>> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
>> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
>> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
>> right?
>>
>> Just trying to learn more and more.
>> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html


"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED216D.7A2D1AAB@cox.net...
> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> QX wrote:
>>
>> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
>> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
>> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
>> than the other.
>> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
>> Grand Cherokee?
>>
>> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
>> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
>> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
>> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
>> right?
>>
>> Just trying to learn more and more.
>> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html


"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED216D.7A2D1AAB@cox.net...
> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> QX wrote:
>>
>> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
>> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
>> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
>> than the other.
>> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
>> Grand Cherokee?
>>
>> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
>> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
>> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
>> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
>> right?
>>
>> Just trying to learn more and more.
>> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html


"L.W.(Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:44ED216D.7A2D1AAB@cox.net...
> First off with Independent Front Suspension we loose about ten
> inches of ground clearance, look way up in there and you will see axle
> boot or the height of a regular live axle:
> http://www.----------.com/05cherokee...okee2front.jpg Plus look at
> how it's bottomed out just getting on the car trailer. Then actually
> look at the suspension and note the space between the bump stops the
> open areas are the four inches of articulation, making it possible to
> get stuck on a road:
> http://www.----------.com/temp/LibertyAndTraction.mpeg Comparison:
> http://www.----------.com/XJversusKJ.jpg
> The rear end of my thunderbird is perfect for a run to Lost Wages,
> It's Independent Suspension like the Ferrari or Corvette hugs the road
> at high speed, but like the Libby and '05 Cherokee, it's put together
> with puny stamped steel and rubber grommets:
> 89thunderbirdRearIndependentSuspension.jpg Just imagine pulling a
> trailer, which way the tires would be pointing while trying to recover
> from an emergency lane change and fishtail. Leave that for Real Trucks
> with Real leaf springs.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> mailto:--------------------
>
> QX wrote:
>>
>> Please excuse my questions, but I am new to the Jeep world.
>> I am pretty sure IFS means Independent Front Suspension, but I don't
>> understand how it compares with a solid axle, and why one is better
>> than the other.
>> Also, is SWB, Short Wheel Base? As in Wrangler? as opposed to the
>> Grand Cherokee?
>>
>> I'd also like to know how an IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) affects
>> towing capacity. Something I read on a jeep related forum. The tone of
>> the thread was that in most cases IRS reduces towing capacity
>> dramatically, but there are ways to maintain 5K capacity if it is done
>> right?
>>
>> Just trying to learn more and more.
>> Thanks

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

I copied the video too. It starts off with the first 4X4 cars
around 1910, modified to use as trucks in World War I.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
> that shows it if youre interested.
>
> --
> Nathan in Montana
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com
> http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

I copied the video too. It starts off with the first 4X4 cars
around 1910, modified to use as trucks in World War I.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
> that shows it if youre interested.
>
> --
> Nathan in Montana
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com
> http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

I copied the video too. It starts off with the first 4X4 cars
around 1910, modified to use as trucks in World War I.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
> that shows it if youre interested.
>
> --
> Nathan in Montana
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com
> http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

I copied the video too. It starts off with the first 4X4 cars
around 1910, modified to use as trucks in World War I.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote:
>
> i have video from the history channel ripped into .wmv downloadable format
> that shows it if youre interested.
>
> --
> Nathan in Montana
> http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
> http://1911Carry.com
> http://GlockCarry.com
> http://hkusp.info

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

billy ray wrote:
>
> Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"
>
> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

billy ray wrote:
>
> Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"
>
> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

billy ray wrote:
>
> Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"
>
> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Thanks.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

billy ray wrote:
>
> Please see the section "What the Liberty could have been (Bob Sheaves)"
>
> http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty.html

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than
just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage"
would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I
know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more
important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road
performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new
Wrangler.

You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
axle? Talk about picking nits.

Some people just don't like change.

"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:44ece398$0$34080$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than
just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage"
would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I
know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more
important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road
performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new
Wrangler.

You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
axle? Talk about picking nits.

Some people just don't like change.

"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:44ece398$0$34080$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than
just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage"
would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I
know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more
important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road
performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new
Wrangler.

You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
axle? Talk about picking nits.

Some people just don't like change.

"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:44ece398$0$34080$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

I think people that buy Jeeps to use them off-road buy them for more than
just the "Jeep heritage." People that would buy it just for the "heritage"
would fall into the category of posers that never take them off-road, and I
know you aren't one of those, so I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more
important to you than "capability." People that buy a vehicle for off-road
performance, however, I don't think will be disappointed with the new
Wrangler.

You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
axle? Talk about picking nits.

Some people just don't like change.

"Nathan W. Collier" <Nathan@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:44ece398$0$34080$815e3792@news.qwest.net...
>i just got done watching the superlift show (TIVO caught it as a random
>recording, i dunno what channel it comes on normally) on the testing of the
>new '07 wrangler. while there are many improvements i would have liked to
>see on the tj (4 doors/better seats/etc), unless 7 grille slots is all it
>takes to be a jeep these days this one is gonna flop amongst those who buy
>jeeps based on jeep heritage. one of the designers talked about how they
>argued IFS vs. solid axle throughout the design (which tells me that IFS
>will always be on the horizon until "dr. z" eventually forces it on the SWB
>jeep). with all the fancy gadgets like 4 wheels sensors to control the
>fancy brake - (almost) lockers i get the impression that "dr. z" is trying
>to morph the SWB jeep into a land rover wanna-be (particularly ironic since
>the first land rover started out as a jeep!).
>

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:o86dnXe4v7PNhXPZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
> Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall
spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable
than ever before.


> I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than
> "capability."

it isnt "more" important, but capability is what built jeep heritage.
without the heritage, its just another 4x4.


> You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
> considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
> axle? Talk about picking nits.

the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the
vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release
was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but
this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:o86dnXe4v7PNhXPZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
> Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall
spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable
than ever before.


> I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than
> "capability."

it isnt "more" important, but capability is what built jeep heritage.
without the heritage, its just another 4x4.


> You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
> considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
> axle? Talk about picking nits.

the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the
vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release
was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but
this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
http://1911Carry.com
http://GlockCarry.com

Re: new wrangler - ug
 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:o86dnXe4v7PNhXPZnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> Nate, many similar complaints were made about the TJ at its introduction.
> Coil springs like Land Rover? Say it ain't so.

i feel coils springs were a natural evolution without changing the overall
spirit of the vehicle. in fact, i feel they made the jeep even more capable
than ever before.


> I wonder why "heritage" seems to be more important to you than
> "capability."

it isnt "more" important, but capability is what built jeep heritage.
without the heritage, its just another 4x4.


> You are basing your negative opinion on the fact that the designers
> considered at one time IFS, even though the final design keeps the solid
> axle? Talk about picking nits.

the majority of my negative opinion is based on the overall size of the
vehicle. jeep was heading in the right direction......the rubicon release
was a huge boost, and the unlimited was also an awesome addition......but
this new wrangler is just to big to be a SWB jeep.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
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