Gerald G. McGeorge

Despite what Consumer Reports wants you to believe, invoice is indeed the
price at which MOST cars are sold to dealers, particularly those in high
demand. However, when things get slow in the marketplace, or a particular
model is in an over supply situation, then manufacturers will throw
incentive money at the problem in the form of dealer rebates, up front cash,
"0%" financing rates, etc. etc.to assist the dealers in moving the products
out. Dealers don't work on consignment, they finance their own inventories
(called a "floor plan"), generally through local banks or the auto mfrs'
finance subsidiaries. So, if the thing sits around it's not only losing
asset value as a commodity, it's costing the dealer daily interest to just
look at it.

Factory incentive money is referred to as "money in the trunk" in the auto
industry. It's a play on a common retailing tactic to incentivise the
market, it's not just a car industry thing.

So, what do you pay? Well, if you want something is short supply and hot on
the market, you'll pay over sticker for the privilege of owning it. If it's
a marketplace turkey that not even your dead uncle would be seen in, then
they may PAY YOU to take it of their hands. Depends upon what it is and how
emotional you want to be with the purchase.


"Chuck" <kb9kfs@hsonline.net> wrote in message
news:vnh96t9ppl79e8@corp.supernews.com...
> Thanks to all who have responded already. I know the dealer doesn't pay
the
> price shown on the invoice. There are a slew of unlisted discounts that
do
> not show on the invoice or are cut off before the dealer shows you the
> invoice. Does anyone know where to find the actual price paid by the
> dealer?
>
> I don't really care if the dealer makes $15,000 or $1,500 or $150 on the
> sale, as long as they sell at a price I can/will live with.
>
> --
> HAV-A-GOOD 1
>
> Chuck
>
> I didn't fight to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
> "Chuck" <kb9kfs@hsonline.net> wrote in message
> news:vngs6sr6043nb4@corp.supernews.com...
> > Does anyone know where I can find the real price, not invoice, a dealer
> pays
> > for a TJ? One local dealer has advertised a new Wrangler for $199 a
> month.
> > Of course, when I called it was sold. They will call me back with
details
> > if there is another one or try to sell me another model of course!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > HAV-A-GOOD 1
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > I didn't fight to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
> >
> >
>
>

twaldron

Hey McFly! Upgraded my email software and haven't entered my filtering
yet. You still haven't purchased a Rubi at $100 over with all that
"knowledge"? You remind me of my neighbor. He has to change a lightbulb
so he breaks out the book and goes by it. However the book tells him to
screw the lightbulb, he does. Whatever the book tells him to pay for the
bulb, he pays. Think OUTSIDE the box, McFly, or forever pay the piper.

There are people who paid ADM for a Miata, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Boxster, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Z3, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Rubicon, there are those who didn't.

Should I guess which category you'd be in?

Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:

> Despite what Consumer Reports wants you to believe, invoice is indeed the
> price at which MOST cars are sold to dealers, particularly those in high
> demand. However, when things get slow in the marketplace, or a particular
> model is in an over supply situation, then manufacturers will throw
> incentive money at the problem in the form of dealer rebates, up front cash,
> "0%" financing rates, etc. etc.to assist the dealers in moving the products
> out. Dealers don't work on consignment, they finance their own inventories
> (called a "floor plan"), generally through local banks or the auto mfrs'
> finance subsidiaries. So, if the thing sits around it's not only losing
> asset value as a commodity, it's costing the dealer daily interest to just
> look at it.
>
> Factory incentive money is referred to as "money in the trunk" in the auto
> industry. It's a play on a common retailing tactic to incentivise the
> market, it's not just a car industry thing.
>
> So, what do you pay? Well, if you want something is short supply and hot on
> the market, you'll pay over sticker for the privilege of owning it. If it's
> a marketplace turkey that not even your dead uncle would be seen in, then
> they may PAY YOU to take it of their hands. Depends upon what it is and how
> emotional you want to be with the purchase.


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

Hey McFly! Upgraded my email software and haven't entered my filtering
yet. You still haven't purchased a Rubi at $100 over with all that
"knowledge"? You remind me of my neighbor. He has to change a lightbulb
so he breaks out the book and goes by it. However the book tells him to
screw the lightbulb, he does. Whatever the book tells him to pay for the
bulb, he pays. Think OUTSIDE the box, McFly, or forever pay the piper.

There are people who paid ADM for a Miata, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Boxster, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Z3, there are those who didn't.
There are people who paid ADM for a Rubicon, there are those who didn't.

Should I guess which category you'd be in?

Gerald G. McGeorge wrote:

> Despite what Consumer Reports wants you to believe, invoice is indeed the
> price at which MOST cars are sold to dealers, particularly those in high
> demand. However, when things get slow in the marketplace, or a particular
> model is in an over supply situation, then manufacturers will throw
> incentive money at the problem in the form of dealer rebates, up front cash,
> "0%" financing rates, etc. etc.to assist the dealers in moving the products
> out. Dealers don't work on consignment, they finance their own inventories
> (called a "floor plan"), generally through local banks or the auto mfrs'
> finance subsidiaries. So, if the thing sits around it's not only losing
> asset value as a commodity, it's costing the dealer daily interest to just
> look at it.
>
> Factory incentive money is referred to as "money in the trunk" in the auto
> industry. It's a play on a common retailing tactic to incentivise the
> market, it's not just a car industry thing.
>
> So, what do you pay? Well, if you want something is short supply and hot on
> the market, you'll pay over sticker for the privilege of owning it. If it's
> a marketplace turkey that not even your dead uncle would be seen in, then
> they may PAY YOU to take it of their hands. Depends upon what it is and how
> emotional you want to be with the purchase.


--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/t...ron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

Russ B

There are no cut and dried fixed numbers because of unadvertised "factory to
dealer incentives," but even those are listed on Edmund's site,
http://www.edmunds.com/ , under "incentives and rebates". I've never heard
of any VIN specific pricing offered to dealers, but you never know. You can
get all the basic pricing info at Edmund's or at the Kelly Blue Book
website.

When I worked for GM the "real price" was based on dealer invoice, minus a
3% holdback, minus any dealer incentives. GM's MSRP was also pretty much set
by invoice as well. It depended on the specific GM car/truck line, but for
GMC trucks the MSRP for the truck was marked up 16% above the base price and
18% for the options, plus the destination fee (the dealer gets no discount
for destination fee). I never worked for Chrysler, but most American MFR's
work the same way.

The $199 a month payment sometimes isn't a bargain! Most times it's for a
balloon note or a longer-term than normal (up to 80 months!). NEVER
NEGOTIATE A VEHICLE DEAL ON PAYMENTS!!!!!!! You WILL get screwed. Example:
About 10 years ago I had a customer come in and buy based on payment alone..
He had a fairly recent late model trade that was paid off. He wanted to buy
two new cars, and had $600-odd dollars a month budgeted. He ended up with a
new Bonneville and a Sunbird at his required payment for 60 months....Sound
good? Actually, he paid full MSRP on both cars and got ZERO for his trade.
At the end of the 60 months he owed something in the neighborhood of $8,000
for the final payment under the GM "Smartbuy" program. I made a lot of money
as a salesman when customers wanted a set payment, but deals like that made
me feel guilty...I changed professions soon after.

WARNING: Unless you kow what the current rates are, and how good your credit
is, be wary of the finance guys. If you have "gold" credit, you shouldn't
pay much for interest.. Some MFR's have a rate/rebate option often it's a
better deal to take the low-rate finance. The dealer can mark up interest
rates as well though. Say you qualify for a 7% rate from DC Financial...the
dealer can try to get you to agree to a 10% rate, and he gets the extra back
from the finance company every month.

RB

"Chuck" <kb9kfs@hsonline.net> wrote in message
news:vngs6sr6043nb4@corp.supernews.com...
> Does anyone know where I can find the real price, not invoice, a dealer
pays
> for a TJ? One local dealer has advertised a new Wrangler for $199 a
month.
> Of course, when I called it was sold. They will call me back with details
> if there is another one or try to sell me another model of course!
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> HAV-A-GOOD 1
>
> Chuck
>
> I didn't fight to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
>
>

Russ B

There are no cut and dried fixed numbers because of unadvertised "factory to
dealer incentives," but even those are listed on Edmund's site,
http://www.edmunds.com/ , under "incentives and rebates". I've never heard
of any VIN specific pricing offered to dealers, but you never know. You can
get all the basic pricing info at Edmund's or at the Kelly Blue Book
website.

When I worked for GM the "real price" was based on dealer invoice, minus a
3% holdback, minus any dealer incentives. GM's MSRP was also pretty much set
by invoice as well. It depended on the specific GM car/truck line, but for
GMC trucks the MSRP for the truck was marked up 16% above the base price and
18% for the options, plus the destination fee (the dealer gets no discount
for destination fee). I never worked for Chrysler, but most American MFR's
work the same way.

The $199 a month payment sometimes isn't a bargain! Most times it's for a
balloon note or a longer-term than normal (up to 80 months!). NEVER
NEGOTIATE A VEHICLE DEAL ON PAYMENTS!!!!!!! You WILL get screwed. Example:
About 10 years ago I had a customer come in and buy based on payment alone..
He had a fairly recent late model trade that was paid off. He wanted to buy
two new cars, and had $600-odd dollars a month budgeted. He ended up with a
new Bonneville and a Sunbird at his required payment for 60 months....Sound
good? Actually, he paid full MSRP on both cars and got ZERO for his trade.
At the end of the 60 months he owed something in the neighborhood of $8,000
for the final payment under the GM "Smartbuy" program. I made a lot of money
as a salesman when customers wanted a set payment, but deals like that made
me feel guilty...I changed professions soon after.

WARNING: Unless you kow what the current rates are, and how good your credit
is, be wary of the finance guys. If you have "gold" credit, you shouldn't
pay much for interest.. Some MFR's have a rate/rebate option often it's a
better deal to take the low-rate finance. The dealer can mark up interest
rates as well though. Say you qualify for a 7% rate from DC Financial...the
dealer can try to get you to agree to a 10% rate, and he gets the extra back
from the finance company every month.

RB

"Chuck" <kb9kfs@hsonline.net> wrote in message
news:vngs6sr6043nb4@corp.supernews.com...
> Does anyone know where I can find the real price, not invoice, a dealer
pays
> for a TJ? One local dealer has advertised a new Wrangler for $199 a
month.
> Of course, when I called it was sold. They will call me back with details
> if there is another one or try to sell me another model of course!
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> HAV-A-GOOD 1
>
> Chuck
>
> I didn't fight to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian
>
>

Richard J Kinch

Chuck writes:

> I don't really care if the dealer makes $15,000 or $1,500 or $150 on the
> sale, as long as they sell at a price I can/will live with.

Amazing how you can pay $2X,000 for something, and everyone cries that
they're not making any money on the deal. Right.

Richard J Kinch

Chuck writes:

> I don't really care if the dealer makes $15,000 or $1,500 or $150 on the
> sale, as long as they sell at a price I can/will live with.

Amazing how you can pay $2X,000 for something, and everyone cries that
they're not making any money on the deal. Right.

Richard J Kinch

Chuck writes:

> I don't really care if the dealer makes $15,000 or $1,500 or $150 on the
> sale, as long as they sell at a price I can/will live with.

Amazing how you can pay $2X,000 for something, and everyone cries that
they're not making any money on the deal. Right.