New Jeep Grand Chicory
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
Groups trimmed to the one I know.
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Steve wrote:
> And so how should one respond differently to a blinker or a brake?
> Either one means "this car is slowing down" so its pretty much a moot
My mileage varies. Here in Connecticut a blinker means "I've nearly
finished turning". A brake light means "My right foot is bored."
4-way flashers mean "I really shouldn't have access to car keys and/or
I'm about to do something really really stupid".
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, Steve wrote:
> And so how should one respond differently to a blinker or a brake?
> Either one means "this car is slowing down" so its pretty much a moot
My mileage varies. Here in Connecticut a blinker means "I've nearly
finished turning". A brake light means "My right foot is bored."
4-way flashers mean "I really shouldn't have access to car keys and/or
I'm about to do something really really stupid".
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:cv-dnT6QP-uuB_PcRVn-gg@texas.net...
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Steve wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Pick your badness! Do you want the "brake, tail and turn signal
>>>>functions
>>>>all lumped into one lamp, which can give only one signal at a time, and
>>>>if
>>>>it fails, you lose all functions on that side" badness?
>>>
>>>My '69 has 3 lamps per side, actually. Built-in redundancy. Problem
>>>solved.
>>
>>
>> Halfassedly.
>>
>> "If it fails, you lose all functions on that side" problem solved.
>>
>> "Can give only one signal at a time" problem UNsolved. If all a
>> surrounding driver can see is one side or the other, and you are stepping
>> on the brakes AND signalling for a turn or lanechange in the direction of
>> the only rear lamp he can see, all he sees is your blinker, NOT your
>> brake
>> light.Half the problem solved.
>
> And so how should one respond differently to a blinker or a brake? Either
> one means "this car is slowing down" so its pretty much a moot point,
> especially since both rear lamps (and the CHMSL) are going to be
> simultaneously visible 99% of the time.
>
> OTOH, seeing amber in limited visibility conditions implies "approaching
> vehicle" which is flat-out false in the case of amber rear turn signals.
> Meaning you have to rely on simultaneously seeing headlamps or taillamps
> to resolve THAT ambiguity. You're just trading one ambiguity for another,
> and I'd argue that the "signal or brake" ambiguity isn't particularly
> dangerous since you should assume that the car is slowing to a near-stop
> (at least) under either condition. The fact of the matter is that BOTH
> systems work perfectly well, both have done so for over 50 years, and I
> think you'd be hard-pressed to find a statistically different number of
> collisions based on the color of the rear turn signals, except for the
> "duelling reds" design you mentioned before. (That's your open invitation
> to prove me wrong.) :-)
International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates that
amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If the USA
followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having to guess
if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle, it would
unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn or if both
are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked. Instead, the
USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
Has anyone done a study to show that our assumptions about amber being safer
is valid?
Richard.
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:cv-dnT6QP-uuB_PcRVn-gg@texas.net...
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Steve wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Pick your badness! Do you want the "brake, tail and turn signal
>>>>functions
>>>>all lumped into one lamp, which can give only one signal at a time, and
>>>>if
>>>>it fails, you lose all functions on that side" badness?
>>>
>>>My '69 has 3 lamps per side, actually. Built-in redundancy. Problem
>>>solved.
>>
>>
>> Halfassedly.
>>
>> "If it fails, you lose all functions on that side" problem solved.
>>
>> "Can give only one signal at a time" problem UNsolved. If all a
>> surrounding driver can see is one side or the other, and you are stepping
>> on the brakes AND signalling for a turn or lanechange in the direction of
>> the only rear lamp he can see, all he sees is your blinker, NOT your
>> brake
>> light.Half the problem solved.
>
> And so how should one respond differently to a blinker or a brake? Either
> one means "this car is slowing down" so its pretty much a moot point,
> especially since both rear lamps (and the CHMSL) are going to be
> simultaneously visible 99% of the time.
>
> OTOH, seeing amber in limited visibility conditions implies "approaching
> vehicle" which is flat-out false in the case of amber rear turn signals.
> Meaning you have to rely on simultaneously seeing headlamps or taillamps
> to resolve THAT ambiguity. You're just trading one ambiguity for another,
> and I'd argue that the "signal or brake" ambiguity isn't particularly
> dangerous since you should assume that the car is slowing to a near-stop
> (at least) under either condition. The fact of the matter is that BOTH
> systems work perfectly well, both have done so for over 50 years, and I
> think you'd be hard-pressed to find a statistically different number of
> collisions based on the color of the rear turn signals, except for the
> "duelling reds" design you mentioned before. (That's your open invitation
> to prove me wrong.) :-)
International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates that
amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If the USA
followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having to guess
if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle, it would
unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn or if both
are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked. Instead, the
USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
Has anyone done a study to show that our assumptions about amber being safer
is valid?
Richard.
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:cv-dnT6QP-uuB_PcRVn-gg@texas.net...
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Steve wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Pick your badness! Do you want the "brake, tail and turn signal
>>>>functions
>>>>all lumped into one lamp, which can give only one signal at a time, and
>>>>if
>>>>it fails, you lose all functions on that side" badness?
>>>
>>>My '69 has 3 lamps per side, actually. Built-in redundancy. Problem
>>>solved.
>>
>>
>> Halfassedly.
>>
>> "If it fails, you lose all functions on that side" problem solved.
>>
>> "Can give only one signal at a time" problem UNsolved. If all a
>> surrounding driver can see is one side or the other, and you are stepping
>> on the brakes AND signalling for a turn or lanechange in the direction of
>> the only rear lamp he can see, all he sees is your blinker, NOT your
>> brake
>> light.Half the problem solved.
>
> And so how should one respond differently to a blinker or a brake? Either
> one means "this car is slowing down" so its pretty much a moot point,
> especially since both rear lamps (and the CHMSL) are going to be
> simultaneously visible 99% of the time.
>
> OTOH, seeing amber in limited visibility conditions implies "approaching
> vehicle" which is flat-out false in the case of amber rear turn signals.
> Meaning you have to rely on simultaneously seeing headlamps or taillamps
> to resolve THAT ambiguity. You're just trading one ambiguity for another,
> and I'd argue that the "signal or brake" ambiguity isn't particularly
> dangerous since you should assume that the car is slowing to a near-stop
> (at least) under either condition. The fact of the matter is that BOTH
> systems work perfectly well, both have done so for over 50 years, and I
> think you'd be hard-pressed to find a statistically different number of
> collisions based on the color of the rear turn signals, except for the
> "duelling reds" design you mentioned before. (That's your open invitation
> to prove me wrong.) :-)
International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates that
amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If the USA
followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having to guess
if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle, it would
unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn or if both
are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked. Instead, the
USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
Has anyone done a study to show that our assumptions about amber being safer
is valid?
Richard.
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
for turning -- Europe.
There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
France used to have yellow headlights.
All standardised.
The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
daylight.
DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---
"Richard" <rfeirste at nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:10mvia1dfu9te90@corp.supernews.com...
[.....]
>
> International agreements, (yes the USA signed and ratified it) mandates
> that amber just be used for flashing lights, front and rear and side. If
> the USA followed that treaty requirement there would be no issue of having
> to guess if a yellow light in the fog was the front or rear of a vehicle,
> it would unambiguously tell you that a vehicle is either flashing a turn
> or if both are flashing, that the vehicle is either very slow or parked.
> Instead, the USA lets the car makers do whatever they want.
..........
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
It surely pissed those Parisians off when I roll my '58 Ford though
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
It surely pissed those Parisians off when I roll my '58 Ford though
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: New Jeep Grand Chicory
It surely pissed those Parisians off when I roll my '58 Ford though
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
at night, with Real headlights.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>
> Front fogs are white, rear fogs are red (in an offset position) and amber is
> for turning -- Europe.
>
> There used to be yellow fog lights but very different to amber.
>
> France used to have yellow headlights.
>
> All standardised.
>
> The only thing that isn't is whether headlights should be on during
> daylight.
>
> DAS
> --
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling