Earle Horton

Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air is
bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is dry.
Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector, because a
leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a leak
that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system leak
down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have seen,
made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides, refrigerant
for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They are
more expensive, anyway.

Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for the
presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can hold
a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air leaking
in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify the
source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell that
something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to expose
the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
holding vacuum and having a tight system.)

If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant cans,
and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so good
for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
together.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of nitrogen
> for that but...
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new dryer,
> > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
that.
> > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a few
hours.
> > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the middle
of
> > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
don't
> > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
replace
> > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
would
> > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > together.
> >
> > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks, before
you
> > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but one
> > worth looking at.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find one
> > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my empty
> > > system filled up.
> > >
> > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
major
> > > component change....
> > >
> > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station, or
even
> > a
> > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the evaporator
> > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > charged,
> > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway thro
ugh.
> > > >
> > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor to
> > replace
> > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not including
the
> > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these 'leaks'
be
> > on
> > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that move
are
> > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around the
> > engine
> > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > >
> > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00 to
> > $1000.00
> > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY' more
> > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way more.....
> > > > >
> > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair manual
to
> > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Jan/06
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and was
> > qouted
> > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done yet.
We'll
> > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I get
it
> > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Howie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > certified to
> > > > do
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
auto
> > parts
> > > > store,
> > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to do
the
> > job
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
refrigerant,
> > in
> > > > order
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically required,
> > unless
> > > > the
> > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
(Wink,
> > wink,
> > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it is
not
> > worth
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just roll
down
> > the
> > > > windows
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm all
suited
> > up
> > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a job
> > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > ***
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > Klif
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> >
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air is
bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is dry.
Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector, because a
leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a leak
that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system leak
down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have seen,
made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides, refrigerant
for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They are
more expensive, anyway.

Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for the
presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can hold
a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air leaking
in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify the
source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell that
something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to expose
the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
holding vacuum and having a tight system.)

If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant cans,
and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so good
for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
together.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of nitrogen
> for that but...
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new dryer,
> > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
that.
> > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a few
hours.
> > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the middle
of
> > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
don't
> > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
replace
> > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
would
> > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > together.
> >
> > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks, before
you
> > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but one
> > worth looking at.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find one
> > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my empty
> > > system filled up.
> > >
> > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
major
> > > component change....
> > >
> > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station, or
even
> > a
> > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the evaporator
> > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > charged,
> > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway thro
ugh.
> > > >
> > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor to
> > replace
> > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not including
the
> > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these 'leaks'
be
> > on
> > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that move
are
> > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around the
> > engine
> > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > >
> > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00 to
> > $1000.00
> > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY' more
> > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way more.....
> > > > >
> > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair manual
to
> > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > Jan/06
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and was
> > qouted
> > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done yet.
We'll
> > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I get
it
> > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Howie
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > certified to
> > > > do
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
auto
> > parts
> > > > store,
> > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to do
the
> > job
> > > > right.
> > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
refrigerant,
> > in
> > > > order
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically required,
> > unless
> > > > the
> > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
(Wink,
> > wink,
> > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it is
not
> > worth
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just roll
down
> > the
> > > > windows
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm all
suited
> > up
> > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a job
> > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > ***
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > Klif
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> >
> > --
> > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Romain

Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
if it has any chance of staying on topic...

The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air is
> bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is dry.
> Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector, because a
> leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a leak
> that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system leak
> down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have seen,
> made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides, refrigerant
> for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They are
> more expensive, anyway.
>
> Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for the
> presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can hold
> a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air leaking
> in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify the
> source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell that
> something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to expose
> the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
>
> If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant cans,
> and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so good
> for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> together.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of nitrogen
> > for that but...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new dryer,
> > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> that.
> > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a few
> hours.
> > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the middle
> of
> > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> don't
> > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> replace
> > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> would
> > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > together.
> > >
> > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks, before
> you
> > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but one
> > > worth looking at.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find one
> > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my empty
> > > > system filled up.
> > > >
> > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> major
> > > > component change....
> > > >
> > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station, or
> even
> > > a
> > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the evaporator
> > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > charged,
> > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway thro
> ugh.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor to
> > > replace
> > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not including
> the
> > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these 'leaks'
> be
> > > on
> > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that move
> are
> > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around the
> > > engine
> > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00 to
> > > $1000.00
> > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY' more
> > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way more.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair manual
> to
> > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Jan/06
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and was
> > > qouted
> > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done yet.
> We'll
> > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I get
> it
> > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > certified to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> auto
> > > parts
> > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to do
> the
> > > job
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> refrigerant,
> > > in
> > > > > order
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically required,
> > > unless
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> (Wink,
> > > wink,
> > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it is
> not
> > > worth
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just roll
> down
> > > the
> > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm all
> suited
> > > up
> > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a job
> > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > ***
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Romain

Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
if it has any chance of staying on topic...

The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air is
> bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is dry.
> Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector, because a
> leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a leak
> that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system leak
> down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have seen,
> made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides, refrigerant
> for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They are
> more expensive, anyway.
>
> Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for the
> presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can hold
> a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air leaking
> in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify the
> source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell that
> something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to expose
> the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
>
> If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant cans,
> and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so good
> for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> together.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of nitrogen
> > for that but...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new dryer,
> > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> that.
> > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a few
> hours.
> > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the middle
> of
> > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> don't
> > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> replace
> > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> would
> > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > together.
> > >
> > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks, before
> you
> > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but one
> > > worth looking at.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find one
> > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my empty
> > > > system filled up.
> > > >
> > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> major
> > > > component change....
> > > >
> > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station, or
> even
> > > a
> > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the evaporator
> > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > charged,
> > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway thro
> ugh.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor to
> > > replace
> > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not including
> the
> > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these 'leaks'
> be
> > > on
> > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that move
> are
> > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around the
> > > engine
> > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00 to
> > > $1000.00
> > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY' more
> > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way more.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair manual
> to
> > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Jan/06
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and was
> > > qouted
> > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done yet.
> We'll
> > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I get
> it
> > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > certified to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> auto
> > > parts
> > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to do
> the
> > > job
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> refrigerant,
> > > in
> > > > > order
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically required,
> > > unless
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> (Wink,
> > > wink,
> > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it is
> not
> > > worth
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just roll
> down
> > > the
> > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm all
> suited
> > > up
> > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a job
> > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > ***
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Romain

Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
if it has any chance of staying on topic...

The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air is
> bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is dry.
> Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector, because a
> leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a leak
> that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system leak
> down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have seen,
> made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides, refrigerant
> for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They are
> more expensive, anyway.
>
> Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for the
> presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can hold
> a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air leaking
> in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify the
> source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell that
> something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to expose
> the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
>
> If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant cans,
> and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so good
> for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> together.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of nitrogen
> > for that but...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Earle Horton wrote:
> > >
> > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new dryer,
> > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> that.
> > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a few
> hours.
> > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the middle
> of
> > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> don't
> > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> replace
> > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> would
> > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > together.
> > >
> > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks, before
> you
> > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but one
> > > worth looking at.
> > >
> > > Earle
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find one
> > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my empty
> > > > system filled up.
> > > >
> > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> major
> > > > component change....
> > > >
> > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station, or
> even
> > > a
> > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the evaporator
> > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > charged,
> > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway thro
> ugh.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor to
> > > replace
> > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not including
> the
> > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle
> > > > >
> > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these 'leaks'
> be
> > > on
> > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that move
> are
> > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around the
> > > engine
> > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00 to
> > > $1000.00
> > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY' more
> > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way more.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair manual
> to
> > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > Jan/06
> http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and was
> > > qouted
> > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done yet.
> We'll
> > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I get
> it
> > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > certified to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> auto
> > > parts
> > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to do
> the
> > > job
> > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> refrigerant,
> > > in
> > > > > order
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically required,
> > > unless
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> (Wink,
> > > wink,
> > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it is
> not
> > > worth
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just roll
> down
> > > the
> > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm all
> suited
> > > up
> > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a job
> > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > ***
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

Mike, I happened to go to Autozone yesterday, and I looked over the air
conditioning supplies and tools display. Some of the leak detectors are
beginning to appear affordable. I don't know about renting vacuum pumps,
but a hundred dollar leak detector might just be good enough, and
inexpensive enough, to make a project like this doable.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:447EF80B.EDA5ED30@sympatico.ca...
> Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
> if it has any chance of staying on topic...
>
> The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
> of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
> I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air
is
> > bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is
dry.
> > Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector,
because a
> > leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a
leak
> > that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system
leak
> > down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have
seen,
> > made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> > flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides,
refrigerant
> > for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They
are
> > more expensive, anyway.
> >
> > Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for
the
> > presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can
hold
> > a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> > test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air
leaking
> > in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> > together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> > gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify
the
> > source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell
that
> > something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to
expose
> > the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> > holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
> >
> > If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> > chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant
cans,
> > and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> > system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so
good
> > for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> > together.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of
nitrogen
> > > for that but...
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new
dryer,
> > > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> > that.
> > > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a
few
> > hours.
> > > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the
middle
> > of
> > > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> > don't
> > > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> > replace
> > > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> > would
> > > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > > together.
> > > >
> > > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks,
before
> > you
> > > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but
one
> > > > worth looking at.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find
one
> > > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my
empty
> > > > > system filled up.
> > > > >
> > > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> > major
> > > > > component change....
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station,
or
> > even
> > > > a
> > > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the
evaporator
> > > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > > charged,
> > > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway
thro
> > ugh.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor
to
> > > > replace
> > > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not
including
> > the
> > > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Earle
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these
'leaks'
> > be
> > > > on
> > > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that
move
> > are
> > > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00
to
> > > > $1000.00
> > > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY'
more
> > > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way
more.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair
manual
> > to
> > > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > > Jan/06
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and
was
> > > > qouted
> > > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done
yet.
> > We'll
> > > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I
get
> > it
> > > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > > certified to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> > auto
> > > > parts
> > > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to
do
> > the
> > > > job
> > > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> > refrigerant,
> > > > in
> > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically
required,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> > (Wink,
> > > > wink,
> > > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it
is
> > not
> > > > worth
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just
roll
> > down
> > > > the
> > > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm
all
> > suited
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a
job
> > > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

Mike, I happened to go to Autozone yesterday, and I looked over the air
conditioning supplies and tools display. Some of the leak detectors are
beginning to appear affordable. I don't know about renting vacuum pumps,
but a hundred dollar leak detector might just be good enough, and
inexpensive enough, to make a project like this doable.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:447EF80B.EDA5ED30@sympatico.ca...
> Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
> if it has any chance of staying on topic...
>
> The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
> of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
> I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air
is
> > bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is
dry.
> > Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector,
because a
> > leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a
leak
> > that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system
leak
> > down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have
seen,
> > made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> > flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides,
refrigerant
> > for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They
are
> > more expensive, anyway.
> >
> > Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for
the
> > presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can
hold
> > a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> > test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air
leaking
> > in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> > together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> > gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify
the
> > source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell
that
> > something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to
expose
> > the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> > holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
> >
> > If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> > chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant
cans,
> > and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> > system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so
good
> > for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> > together.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of
nitrogen
> > > for that but...
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new
dryer,
> > > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> > that.
> > > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a
few
> > hours.
> > > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the
middle
> > of
> > > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> > don't
> > > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> > replace
> > > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> > would
> > > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > > together.
> > > >
> > > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks,
before
> > you
> > > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but
one
> > > > worth looking at.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find
one
> > > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my
empty
> > > > > system filled up.
> > > > >
> > > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> > major
> > > > > component change....
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station,
or
> > even
> > > > a
> > > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the
evaporator
> > > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > > charged,
> > > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway
thro
> > ugh.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor
to
> > > > replace
> > > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not
including
> > the
> > > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Earle
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these
'leaks'
> > be
> > > > on
> > > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that
move
> > are
> > > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00
to
> > > > $1000.00
> > > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY'
more
> > > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way
more.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair
manual
> > to
> > > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > > Jan/06
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and
was
> > > > qouted
> > > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done
yet.
> > We'll
> > > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I
get
> > it
> > > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > > certified to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> > auto
> > > > parts
> > > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to
do
> > the
> > > > job
> > > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> > refrigerant,
> > > > in
> > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically
required,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> > (Wink,
> > > > wink,
> > > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it
is
> > not
> > > > worth
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just
roll
> > down
> > > > the
> > > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm
all
> > suited
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a
job
> > > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Earle Horton

Mike, I happened to go to Autozone yesterday, and I looked over the air
conditioning supplies and tools display. Some of the leak detectors are
beginning to appear affordable. I don't know about renting vacuum pumps,
but a hundred dollar leak detector might just be good enough, and
inexpensive enough, to make a project like this doable.

Earle

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:447EF80B.EDA5ED30@sympatico.ca...
> Adding 'nathan' to a thread is normally the 'last' thing a thread needs
> if it has any chance of staying on topic...
>
> The vacuum idea is the best then. Plumbing supply houses do have tanks
> of nitrogen you can 'rent' for a couple days for testing purposes also.
> I wonder if any places will rent out a vacuum pump?
>
> Mike
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > Where the heck is Nathan, now that we really need him? Compressed air
is
> > bad, because it carries moisture. Nitrogen is better, because it is
dry.
> > Professional HVAC-ers use an electronic or chemical leak detector,
because a
> > leak doesn't have to be very big, to cause problems. In other words, a
leak
> > that you might miss, with the soap bubble test, can make your system
leak
> > down in a season. There is a cheap halide detector, that you may have
seen,
> > made from a propane torch and a copper disk that is heated red hot. The
> > flame changes color when exposed to a gas containing halides,
refrigerant
> > for example. I assume that the electronic detectors are "better". They
are
> > more expensive, anyway.
> >
> > Reiterating that I am a mere amateur at this, the best way to test for
the
> > presence of a leak, is to pump the system down, and verify that it can
hold
> > a vacuum, preferably for several hours. This is better than a pressure
> > test, because a vacuum gauge will move a lot, from just a little air
leaking
> > in. If the system holds vacuum, then you are ready to put the dash back
> > together. It is when there is a loss of vacuum, even enough to make the
> > gauge move a smidgeon overnight, that you absolutely have to identify
the
> > source of the leak. (The idiots who worked on my Suburban could tell
that
> > something was leaking, but none of them had the presence of mind to
expose
> > the rear AC unit for inspection. Not finding a leak, is not the same as
> > holding vacuum and having a tight system.)
> >
> > If you are on budget in the back yard, the best alternative might be a
> > chemical leak detector. These come in cans, similar to refrigerant
cans,
> > and contain a mix of refrigerant and a red dye. These work best if the
> > system is running, circulating refrigerant and oil. They are not so
good
> > for verifying that the system is tight, before you put the dash back
> > together.
> >
> > Earle
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:447EE59C.C7521A6C@sympatico.ca...
> > > What about plain old compressed air from a bicycle or tire pump and a
> > > brush with soapy water on it to check for leaks before bolting things
> > > back up? Same as we do on a new gas line install or an under pad
> > > plumbing install final test. Actually I think we got tanks of
nitrogen
> > > for that but...
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A major component change lets water into the system, but a new
dryer,
> > > > accumulator, or whatever they use in this system should take care of
> > that.
> > > > I like to pump the system down, and make sure it stays down for a
few
> > hours.
> > > > But then I have a vacuum pump and a set of gauges, I live in the
middle
> > of
> > > > nowhere, I am going for longest time possible between service, and I
> > don't
> > > > charge myself, to leave the vacuum on all night. If I were going to
> > replace
> > > > the evaporator myself, and then have a shop charge up the system, I
> > would
> > > > make darn sure I hadn't screwed anything up, before putting the dash
> > > > together.
> > > >
> > > > This is the rub, I think. How do you plan to check for leaks,
before
> > you
> > > > put the dash back together? This is not an unsolvable problem, but
one
> > > > worth looking at.
> > > >
> > > > Earle
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:447DCDA7.7E1D1B38@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > If the AC place didn't want my money to charge it up, I would find
one
> > > > > that did. It isn't really any of their business 'why' I want my
empty
> > > > > system filled up.
> > > > >
> > > > > There wouldn't be much 'evacuating' to do I wouldn't think after a
> > major
> > > > > component change....
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been on the removing end of a few dashes for heater cores,
> > > > > etc.... Bill's photo says it all....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Earle Horton wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good points Mike, but most people don't have a charging station,
or
> > even
> > > > a
> > > > > > vacuum pump and a set of gauges. Now you can replace the
evaporator
> > > > > > yourself, and take it to an AC service center to have the system
> > > > charged,
> > > > > > but I don't know how they would like taking on this job halfway
thro
> > ugh.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have to laugh at Bill's picture, when I think about the labor
to
> > > > replace
> > > > > > the evaporator in my Honda Civic. Maybe half an hour, not
including
> > the
> > > > > > time to evacuate and charge the system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Earle
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:447D9E10.A9E82666@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > I am 'really' curious about something. How can all these
'leaks'
> > be
> > > > on
> > > > > > > the only part you can't get to??????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I mean who diagnosed it and how was it diagnosed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'Normally' leaks happen at fittings. Fittings on parts that
move
> > are
> > > > > > > usually the first suspect, which means parts vibrating around
the
> > > > engine
> > > > > > > area. Nothing moves under the dash.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would 'sure' want to see proof before I forked out $500.00
to
> > > > $1000.00
> > > > > > > to a "$tealership" of all people. Yes, I have run into 'WAY'
more
> > > > > > > thieves at $tealerships than honest people by far. Way
more.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And for that kind of money, I would gladly read the repair
manual
> > to
> > > > > > > find out how to do it. It isn't hard, just labor intensive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > > > > > > Jan/06
> > http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > > > > > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HG97TJ wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have the same AC leak (evaporator) in my 97 TJ Sport and
was
> > > > qouted
> > > > > > > > at around $550-$600 for the repair which I have not done
yet.
> > We'll
> > > > > > > > see how long I can survive the PA summer without AC before I
get
> > it
> > > > > > > > fixed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Howie
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Klif wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in
message
> > > > > > > > > news:447cd76b$0$24268$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> > > > > > > > > > Get another estimate. You do not really have to be EPA
> > > > certified to
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > job, but you should have a clue. ;^)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You can buy R134a and hoses to charge your system at any
> > auto
> > > > parts
> > > > > > store,
> > > > > > > > > > but you really, really need a vacuum pump and a scale to
do
> > the
> > > > job
> > > > > > right.
> > > > > > > > > > R134a systems want to have the correct quantity of
> > refrigerant,
> > > > in
> > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > work properly. Charging station? Theoretically
required,
> > > > unless
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > > > had already leaked down before you initiated repairs.
> > (Wink,
> > > > wink,
> > > > > > nudge,
> > > > > > > > > > nudge.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good place to start, www.acsource.com. For one job, it
is
> > not
> > > > worth
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > cost of the tools and supplies. I had two jobs to do.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Earle
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "Klif" <ckbiker@hotmail.comPOSER> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > > news:qh0fg.11888$U_2.1871@trnddc05...
> > > > > > > > > > > How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.
> > > > > > > > > > > I have moderate wrench skills.
> > > > > > > > > > > The stealer wants over $1000.00.....I usually just
roll
> > down
> > > > the
> > > > > > windows
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > sometimes the AC would be nice, especially when I'm
all
> > suited
> > > > up
> > > > > > > > > driving
> > > > > > > > > > > downtown on a sweltering summers afternoon going to a
job
> > > > > > interview and
> > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > look like a sweat hog in heat. '97 TJ Sahara
> > > > > > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *** Posted via a free Usenet account from
> > > > http://www.teranews.com
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thx for the USEFUL info Earle.
> > > > > > > > > Klif
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Richard J Kinch

Klif writes:

> How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.

Huge job on the TJ. Steering column and dashboard have to be utterly removed,
among other things.

See my descriptions:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...49dff5dee9c55a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...b23fa23398a397

Richard J Kinch

Klif writes:

> How difficult is this to replace. The OE one leaks.

Huge job on the TJ. Steering column and dashboard have to be utterly removed,
among other things.

See my descriptions:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.h...49dff5dee9c55a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...b23fa23398a397