Mike Romain

The brakes have to be almost adjusted perfect before the reverse
adjusters will work.

If they are too loose to start, the cable won't pull far enough to click
the star wheel.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bill. I'm going to adjust them "professionally" tomorrow if it's
> dry (rained here all week long). All the springs, adjusters, cables, etc
> are still clean and new and I assumed it all works well. I adjusted the
> shoes, wheels off, and then tried to use the auto adjusters by braking
> forward, reverse, forward, reverse, forward, reverse. Call it the shade
> tree mechanic in me. Every once in a while, it calls me back to the basics
> to prove I can do a professional job:) I'm sure it will help but I'll let
> you know how well it turns out.
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:402EC3EE.D3C7DB13@***.net...
> > One or more of your self adjusters is not working. Jack them up one
> > at a time and remove the rubber access plug at the bottom of the backing
> > plate, and stick a screw driver in and catch bottom of the star
> > pictured: http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axl...2/DSCN0915.jpg
> > and pull it down and you will hear the ratchet clicking, if your gone
> > too tight when use a very small screw driver to push off the adjusting
> > lever so you may back it off. You may have to make a tool like the one
> > in center:
> > http://www.asianproducts.com/images/...477868200b.jpg
> > Your brake cylinders will suck up less water and rust if you switch
> > back to DOT 3.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> ougtta
> > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes and
> 11"
> > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh", the
> pedal
> > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4 fluid
> but
> > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master cylinder
> went
> > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> replaced
> > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> brakes
> > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> keeping
> > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout (pumped
> a
> > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year old.
> > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> again?
> > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

The brakes have to be almost adjusted perfect before the reverse
adjusters will work.

If they are too loose to start, the cable won't pull far enough to click
the star wheel.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bill. I'm going to adjust them "professionally" tomorrow if it's
> dry (rained here all week long). All the springs, adjusters, cables, etc
> are still clean and new and I assumed it all works well. I adjusted the
> shoes, wheels off, and then tried to use the auto adjusters by braking
> forward, reverse, forward, reverse, forward, reverse. Call it the shade
> tree mechanic in me. Every once in a while, it calls me back to the basics
> to prove I can do a professional job:) I'm sure it will help but I'll let
> you know how well it turns out.
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:402EC3EE.D3C7DB13@***.net...
> > One or more of your self adjusters is not working. Jack them up one
> > at a time and remove the rubber access plug at the bottom of the backing
> > plate, and stick a screw driver in and catch bottom of the star
> > pictured: http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axl...2/DSCN0915.jpg
> > and pull it down and you will hear the ratchet clicking, if your gone
> > too tight when use a very small screw driver to push off the adjusting
> > lever so you may back it off. You may have to make a tool like the one
> > in center:
> > http://www.asianproducts.com/images/...477868200b.jpg
> > Your brake cylinders will suck up less water and rust if you switch
> > back to DOT 3.
> > God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> ougtta
> > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes and
> 11"
> > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh", the
> pedal
> > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4 fluid
> but
> > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master cylinder
> went
> > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> replaced
> > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> brakes
> > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> keeping
> > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout (pumped
> a
> > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year old.
> > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> again?
> > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

Just a thought for you.

Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.

I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
keeping the master topped up.

That worked great.

Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.

It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
right to the floor.

Then the bugger did it again to me.

I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.

Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
caliper piston in.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was neglecting
> the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand it
> takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is it
> that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve when I
> bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> hands just to bleed the brakes?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> >
> > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> >
> > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> ougtta
> > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes and
> 11"
> > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh", the
> pedal
> > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4 fluid
> but
> > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master cylinder
> went
> > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> replaced
> > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> brakes
> > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> keeping
> > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout (pumped
> a
> > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year old.
> > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> again?
> > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

Just a thought for you.

Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.

I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
keeping the master topped up.

That worked great.

Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.

It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
right to the floor.

Then the bugger did it again to me.

I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.

Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
caliper piston in.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was neglecting
> the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand it
> takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is it
> that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve when I
> bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> hands just to bleed the brakes?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> >
> > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> >
> > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> ougtta
> > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes and
> 11"
> > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh", the
> pedal
> > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4 fluid
> but
> > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master cylinder
> went
> > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> replaced
> > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> brakes
> > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> keeping
> > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout (pumped
> a
> > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year old.
> > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> again?
> > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

Just a thought for you.

Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.

I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
keeping the master topped up.

That worked great.

Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.

It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
right to the floor.

Then the bugger did it again to me.

I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.

Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
caliper piston in.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was neglecting
> the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand it
> takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is it
> that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve when I
> bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> hands just to bleed the brakes?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> >
> > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> >
> > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> ougtta
> > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes and
> 11"
> > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh", the
> pedal
> > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4 fluid
> but
> > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master cylinder
> went
> > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> replaced
> > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> brakes
> > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> keeping
> > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout (pumped
> a
> > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year old.
> > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> again?
> > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
"not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> Just a thought for you.
>
> Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
>
> I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> keeping the master topped up.
>
> That worked great.
>
> Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
>
> It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> right to the floor.
>
> Then the bugger did it again to me.
>
> I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
>
> Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> caliper piston in.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
neglecting
> > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
it
> > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
it
> > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
when I
> > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > >
> > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > >
> > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > ougtta
> > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
and
> > 11"
> > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
the
> > pedal
> > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
fluid
> > but
> > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
cylinder
> > went
> > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > replaced
> > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > brakes
> > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > keeping
> > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
(pumped
> > a
> > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
old.
> > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > again?
> > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
"not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> Just a thought for you.
>
> Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
>
> I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> keeping the master topped up.
>
> That worked great.
>
> Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
>
> It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> right to the floor.
>
> Then the bugger did it again to me.
>
> I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
>
> Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> caliper piston in.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
neglecting
> > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
it
> > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
it
> > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
when I
> > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > >
> > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > >
> > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > ougtta
> > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
and
> > 11"
> > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
the
> > pedal
> > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
fluid
> > but
> > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
cylinder
> > went
> > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > replaced
> > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > brakes
> > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > keeping
> > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
(pumped
> > a
> > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
old.
> > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > again?
> > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Drink

I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
"not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
o_o_o_o
Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> Just a thought for you.
>
> Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
>
> I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> keeping the master topped up.
>
> That worked great.
>
> Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
>
> It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> right to the floor.
>
> Then the bugger did it again to me.
>
> I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
>
> Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> caliper piston in.
>
> Mike
>
> Drink wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
neglecting
> > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
it
> > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
it
> > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
when I
> > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > o_o_o_o
> > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > >
> > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > >
> > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Drink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > ougtta
> > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
and
> > 11"
> > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
the
> > pedal
> > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
fluid
> > but
> > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
cylinder
> > went
> > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > replaced
> > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > brakes
> > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > keeping
> > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
(pumped
> > a
> > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
old.
> > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > again?
> > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
couple clicks.

I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
the first pump.

I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
could be the same.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
> are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
> "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
> make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
> not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
> and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
> would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
> exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > Just a thought for you.
> >
> > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> >
> > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > keeping the master topped up.
> >
> > That worked great.
> >
> > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> >
> > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > right to the floor.
> >
> > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> >
> > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> >
> > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> > caliper piston in.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> neglecting
> > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
> it
> > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
> it
> > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> when I
> > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > >
> > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > >
> > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > > ougtta
> > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
> and
> > > 11"
> > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
> the
> > > pedal
> > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> fluid
> > > but
> > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> cylinder
> > > went
> > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > > replaced
> > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > > brakes
> > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > > keeping
> > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> (pumped
> > > a
> > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
> old.
> > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > > again?
> > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W

Mike Romain

I tighten them until they 'just' start to grab, then back them off a
couple clicks.

I don't know about drums and bearings, but I guess once you have them
adjusted and have a good pedal 'feel' you could jack up the front and
reef on the wheel to see if you can get the pedal to change places for
the first pump.

I know it took very little bearing play on mine to make the pad push the
piston back in enough to 'suddenly' drop the pedal down. Drum brakes
could be the same.

Mike

Drink wrote:
>
> I've got drums all around, so, no calipers. But, the front wheel bearings
> are just a little loose; nothing excessive, you can just tell that they're
> "not tight". I usually just adjust the shoes by hand with the drum off and
> make sure they're tight but that I can still rotate the drum by hand. It's
> not a Meineke job but has always been sufficient. I'm about to go outside
> and adjust them with wheels on like I always should.
> The first thing I did when bleeding before was to open 'em up and let
> fluid flow liberally while topping off the MC. I always figured that air
> would evacuate the proportioning valve if I did a reeeaaalllly thorough
> bleed (with the tube/reservoir) in the end.
> Well, off I go to do a proper break adjustment.
> P.S. How tight is too tight? And, If I get 'em tight enough, they should
> exhibit the "crispiness" that I'm looking for, right?
> o_o_o_o
> Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:402F9909.D7AC5280@sympatico.ca...
> > Just a thought for you.
> >
> > Mine was giving me a mushy pedal after being apart for a year. It was
> > just low and mushy though and consistent which is the trick.
> >
> > I tried and tried to get the air out of the sucker and finally said
> > screw it and opened up all the bleeders and just let them drip while
> > keeping the master topped up.
> >
> > That worked great.
> >
> > Then my Cherokee pulled a low to the floor pedal.
> >
> > It would just up and drop to the floor and need pumping up. I bought a
> > new MC. Same deal. Went nuts trying to figure it until I got a
> > scraping noise. My front wheel bearing was bad which allowed the rotor
> > to sometimes push the brake caliper in so the first pump put the pedal
> > right to the floor.
> >
> > Then the bugger did it again to me.
> >
> > I went half nuts again and for sure checked the wheel bearings.
> >
> > Man it was aggravating. Finally I have a friend pumping the pedal and I
> > noticed a bunch of movement on one caliper so I looked closer. The pad
> > had let go from the backing plate and was warped from the heat. When
> > the pedal was released the pad arched like a leaf spring and pushed the
> > caliper piston in.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Drink wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice, Mike. I was thinking that maybe I was
> neglecting
> > > the P valve. I know there's a plunger of some sort on it and understand
> it
> > > takes a special tool to pull it out. (Dumb question) How important is
> it
> > > that I should be pulling that plunger out on the proportioning valve
> when I
> > > bleed the brakes? Any advice on doing it without a special tool or ten
> > > hands just to bleed the brakes?
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:402EBA3A.129ADFFC@sympatico.ca...
> > > > The last 3 out of 4 'rebuilt' masters I have gotten for Jeeps were
> > > > bad.... I gave up and went new.
> > > >
> > > > If the proportioning valve has air in it, it will be consistently
> > > > 'mushy' with a pump up to hard.
> > > >
> > > > If it hits the floor, the master is toast.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >
> > > > Drink wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been trying to get my brakes back up to the snuff I know they
> > > ougtta
> > > > > have but just can't get there. I have a 76 CJ-7, standard brakes
> and
> > > 11"
> > > > > drums all around. Every once in a while, I'd brake and, "whoosh",
> the
> > > pedal
> > > > > went to the floor. Hit it again and it'd brake normally but would
> > > > > eventually make it to the floor. I flushed the lines with DOT 4
> fluid
> > > but
> > > > > then I had to pump 3-4 times to brake. I figured the master
> cylinder
> > > went
> > > > > south and replaced it, primed it, flushed with more DOT 4 and even
> > > replaced
> > > > > the front wheel cylinders just because they were cheap. Still, the
> > > brakes
> > > > > mush toward the floor (not as bad) and need another pump. What's
> > > keeping
> > > > > the brakes from the crispness they should have?
> > > > > Recap: New master cylinder (primed), new DOT 4 fluid throughout
> (pumped
> > > a
> > > > > quart through 'em), wheel cylinders and brake pads less than a year
> old.
> > > > > What could it be? Proportioning valve? Need to tighten the shoes
> > > again?
> > > > > I'm at a loss and would appreciate any advice you can give.
> > > > > o_o_o_o
> > > > > Best Regards, /| ,[_____],
> > > > > Jim, WP3JQ |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
> > > > > EM60qk 30.447439N 086.628959W