Jeeps Canada - Jeep Forums - Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..

If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but at a
90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a clevis
to connect straps.

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
>
> Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>
> Mike
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
> > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
> > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
> > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
stuck
> > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface,
in
> > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> >
> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
> > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
> > opinion,
> > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
wood
> > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means
variable
> > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps
together
> > and
> > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done.
At
> > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
> > potentially
> > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > > --
> > > Jerry Bransford
> > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> > > > Jerry,
> > > >
> > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
> > > > demonstrated
> > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
dowel
> > > > as
> > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter,
> > we're
> > > > not talking about a small piece of wood.
> > > >
> > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be
the
> > > > dowel,
> > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
(who
> > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the
straps
> > > > would
> > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before
the
> > > > dowel
> > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb
some
> > > > energy
> > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece
of
> > > > steel that broke off.
> > > >
> > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
> > strap
> > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks,
meaning
> > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
> > > >
> > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
> > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration
but be
> > > > sure
> > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each
other.
> > The
> > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them
from
> > > >> being
> > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're
nearly
> > > >> impossible to separate.
> > > >>
> > > >> Jerry
> > > >> --
> > > >> Jerry Bransford
> > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
> > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
> > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
> > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
> > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
> > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
> > > >> > Thanks in advance
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated
with a
> > > >> >> 2"
> > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
using
> > a
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The
dowel
> > > >> >> doesn't
> > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and
strip
> > the
> > > >> >> bark
> > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on
itself
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >> (b)
> > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
> > > >> >> without
> > > >> >> unlooping.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be
stupid
> > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a
knot
> > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
stick
> > > >> >>>as
> > > >> >>>part of the structure?
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
> > handle
> > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by
> > just
> > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
> > > >> >>>talking
> > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using
vehicle
> > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers
off, I
> > > > sure
> > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the
'fuse'
> > in
> > > >> >>>the equation!!!!!
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just
how
> > > > fast
> > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
> > pressure.
> > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through
concrete
> > > >> >>>walls.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the
stick.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Mike
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith...
> > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just
goes
> > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
> > holding
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> then
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop.
Bingo,
> > two
> > > >> >>>>>locked together loops.
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
pressure.
> > > > In
> > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be
slapped.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Hard!.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>Mike
> > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
> > showed
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> us a
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the
end of
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Strap
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>1
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the
loop
> > of
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>Strap 1,
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks,
it
> > will
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>break
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It
should
> > > >> >>>>>>have
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> a
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
times
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> and
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>have
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip
the
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> dowel
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>out
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I
am
> > sure
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> some
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message
> > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should
be)
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> looped
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be
there so
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>straps
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
Without
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>dowel,
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each
other
> > due
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>the
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
> > > >> >>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry
> > > >> >>>>>>>--
> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
> > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
> > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
> > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/
> > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > > >> >>>>>>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
but
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>recently a
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
> > dowel
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> to
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would
believe
> > the
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>dowel
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
have
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
> > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
been
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>shed....I
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
> > friend...
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> tugging
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>and
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together
by a
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis....
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let
this
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> happen
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>in
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>my
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
message
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>animals...
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >
> >
http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>--
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>>--
> > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
> > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
> > > >> >>>>>>>> |¯¯¯L --O|||||||O-
> > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)¯()_) ¯¯¯¯¯ )_)
> > > >> >>>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>>>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >