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Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
Of course the dowel sees the forces of towing, but it is not impact forces
like a bat and baseball contacting. If a tow hook goes, then using a dowel as a toggle will mean the connection will immediately loosen and absorb some of the projectile energy that would otherwise be transmitted to the hook. By using the dowel as a means to disconnect the looped-together straps, it becomes part of the projectile as well. "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:416D4A19.601CB0C1@sympatico.ca... > Have you ever snapped a baseball bat? Hooks have even been known to > snap and hook bolts shear. > > The dowel certainly 'does' see the impact forces. 100% of them as a > matter of fact. > > Wow..... > > Mike > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > > > Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2" > > hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a the > > dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel doesn't > > see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the bark > > off. It's just something you carry with you. > > > > It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and (b) > > as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without > > unlooping. > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > > Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > > > > > I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > > enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > > > > > Maybe he has a death wish? > > > > > > Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > > holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick as > > > part of the structure? > > > > > > My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > > > > > The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > > > under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > > > hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are talking > > > an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > > > > > So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > > momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I sure > > > as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > > > the equation!!!!! > > > > > > That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > > > > > I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how fast > > > and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > > > Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > > walls. > > > > > > Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark Smith... > > > > http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > > > > > > > Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > > > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > > > news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > > > > He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > > > > > > > > > You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > > > > between them so you can pry them apart. > > > > > > > > > > Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > > then > > > > > feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > > > > > locked together loops. > > > > > > > > > > Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. In > > > > > my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > Hard!. > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > > > > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > > us a > > > > > > different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > Strap > > > > 1 > > > > > > through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > > > > Strap 1, > > > > > > essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > > > > break > > > > > > inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > > > > > > > > > > > I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should have > > a > > > > > > minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > and > > > > have > > > > > > yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > dowel > > > > out > > > > > > and the two straps instantly come apart. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > > some > > > > > > members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > > > > > news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > > > > > > The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > looped > > > > > > > through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > the > > > > > > straps > > > > > > > can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > the > > > > dowel, > > > > > > > they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > force of the pull. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Jerry Bransford > > > > > > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > > > > > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > > > > > > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > > > > > > > > news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > > > > > > > Very sad.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > > > recently a > > > > > > > > wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > > to > > > > > > > > connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > > > > dowel > > > > > > > > would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > the > > > > > > > > weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > > > > > > > "Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > > > shed....I > > > > > > > >> don't > > > > > > > >> know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > tugging > > > > and > > > > > > > >> what > > > > > > > >> to use and not to use... > > > > > > > >> and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > > > > > cleavis.... > > > > > > > >> I > > > > > > > >> know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > happen > > > > in > > > > > > my > > > > > > > >> presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > > > > > > >> you are in our prayers.... > > > > > > > >> Jeff > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> "JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > > > > > > >> news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03... > > > > > > > >> > To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > > > animals... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > > > > > > >> 6753&p=1 > > > > > > > >> > -- > > > > > > > >> > Gene > > > > > > > >> > Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > o_o_o_o > > > > > > > > /| ,[_____], > > > > > > > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > > > > > > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
catapult load... "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > Jerry, > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he demonstrated > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel as > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the dowel, > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps would > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the dowel > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some energy > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > steel that broke off. > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > sure > > to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > > inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from being > > pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > impossible to separate. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2" > > >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > > >> the > > >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> doesn't > > >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > > >> bark > > >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> > > >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and > > >> (b) > > >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without > > >> unlooping. > > >> > > >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> > > >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >>> > > >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >>> > > >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >>> > > >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick as > > >>>part of the structure? > > >>> > > >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >>> > > >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > > >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > > >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are talking > > >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >>> > > >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > sure > > >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > > >>>the equation!!!!! > > >>> > > >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >>> > > >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > fast > > >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > > >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >>>walls. > > >>> > > >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >>> > > >>>Mike > > >>> > > >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>> > > >>>>Mark Smith... > > >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >>>> > > >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >>>> > > >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >>>> > > >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >>>>> > > >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > > >> > > >> then > > >> > > >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > > >>>>>locked together loops. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > In > > >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> > > >> Hard!. > > >> > > >>>>>Mike > > >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > > >> > > >> us a > > >> > > >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> > > >> Strap > > >> > > >>>>1 > > >>>> > > >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > > >>>> > > >>>>Strap 1, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > > >>>> > > >>>>break > > >>>> > > >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should have > > >> > > >> a > > >> > > >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >>>>have > > >>>> > > >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> > > >> dowel > > >> > > >>>>out > > >>>> > > >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > > >> > > >> some > > >> > > >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> > > >> looped > > >> > > >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>straps > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>dowel, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>the > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>Jerry > > >>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> > > >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >>>> > > >>>>recently a > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > > >>>> > > >>>>dowel > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >>>> > > >>>>shed....I > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>don't > > >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> > > >> tugging > > >> > > >>>>and > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>what > > >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I > > >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> > > >> happen > > >> > > >>>>in > > >>>> > > >>>>>>my > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >>>> > > >>>>animals... > > >>>> > > >> > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> > > >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
catapult load... "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > Jerry, > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he demonstrated > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel as > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the dowel, > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps would > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the dowel > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some energy > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > steel that broke off. > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > sure > > to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > > inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from being > > pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > impossible to separate. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2" > > >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > > >> the > > >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> doesn't > > >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > > >> bark > > >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> > > >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and > > >> (b) > > >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without > > >> unlooping. > > >> > > >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> > > >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >>> > > >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >>> > > >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >>> > > >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick as > > >>>part of the structure? > > >>> > > >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >>> > > >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > > >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > > >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are talking > > >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >>> > > >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > sure > > >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > > >>>the equation!!!!! > > >>> > > >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >>> > > >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > fast > > >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > > >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >>>walls. > > >>> > > >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >>> > > >>>Mike > > >>> > > >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>> > > >>>>Mark Smith... > > >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >>>> > > >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >>>> > > >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >>>> > > >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >>>>> > > >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > > >> > > >> then > > >> > > >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > > >>>>>locked together loops. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > In > > >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> > > >> Hard!. > > >> > > >>>>>Mike > > >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > > >> > > >> us a > > >> > > >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> > > >> Strap > > >> > > >>>>1 > > >>>> > > >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > > >>>> > > >>>>Strap 1, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > > >>>> > > >>>>break > > >>>> > > >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should have > > >> > > >> a > > >> > > >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >>>>have > > >>>> > > >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> > > >> dowel > > >> > > >>>>out > > >>>> > > >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > > >> > > >> some > > >> > > >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> > > >> looped > > >> > > >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>straps > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>dowel, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>the > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>Jerry > > >>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> > > >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >>>> > > >>>>recently a > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > > >>>> > > >>>>dowel > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >>>> > > >>>>shed....I > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>don't > > >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> > > >> tugging > > >> > > >>>>and > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>what > > >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I > > >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> > > >> happen > > >> > > >>>>in > > >>>> > > >>>>>>my > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >>>> > > >>>>animals... > > >>>> > > >> > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> > > >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
OK, I meant 2 1/2 inches in diameter, not feet, that would be more like a
catapult load... "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > Jerry, > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he demonstrated > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel as > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the dowel, > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps would > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the dowel > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some energy > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > steel that broke off. > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > sure > > to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > > inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from being > > pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > impossible to separate. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a 2" > > >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > > >> the > > >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> doesn't > > >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > > >> bark > > >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> > > >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself and > > >> (b) > > >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart without > > >> unlooping. > > >> > > >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> > > >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >>> > > >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >>> > > >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >>> > > >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick as > > >>>part of the structure? > > >>> > > >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >>> > > >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > > >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > > >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are talking > > >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >>> > > >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > sure > > >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > > >>>the equation!!!!! > > >>> > > >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >>> > > >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > fast > > >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > > >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >>>walls. > > >>> > > >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >>> > > >>>Mike > > >>> > > >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>> > > >>>>Mark Smith... > > >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >>>> > > >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >>>> > > >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >>>> > > >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >>>>> > > >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > > >> > > >> then > > >> > > >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > > >>>>>locked together loops. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > In > > >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> > > >> Hard!. > > >> > > >>>>>Mike > > >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >>>>> > > >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > > >> > > >> us a > > >> > > >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> > > >> Strap > > >> > > >>>>1 > > >>>> > > >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > > >>>> > > >>>>Strap 1, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > > >>>> > > >>>>break > > >>>> > > >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should have > > >> > > >> a > > >> > > >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >>>>have > > >>>> > > >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> > > >> dowel > > >> > > >>>>out > > >>>> > > >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > > >> > > >> some > > >> > > >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> > > >> looped > > >> > > >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>straps > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>dowel, > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>the > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>Jerry > > >>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> > > >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >>>> > > >>>>recently a > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > > >> > > >> to > > >> > > >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > > >>>> > > >>>>dowel > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> > > >> the > > >> > > >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >>>> > > >>>>shed....I > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>don't > > >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> > > >> tugging > > >> > > >>>>and > > >>>> > > >>>>>>>>>what > > >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>I > > >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> > > >> happen > > >> > > >>>>in > > >>>> > > >>>>>>my > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >>>> > > >>>>animals... > > >>>> > > >> > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> > > >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>-- > > >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my opinion, > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together and > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could potentially > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > Jerry > -- > Jerry Bransford > PP-ASEL N6TAY > See the Geezer Jeep at > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > Jerry, > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > demonstrated > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > as > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > dowel, > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > would > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > dowel > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > energy > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > steel that broke off. > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > sure > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > >> being > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > >> impossible to separate. > >> > >> Jerry > >> -- > >> Jerry Bransford > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > >> > Thanks in advance > >> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > >> >> 2" > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > >> >> the > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > >> >> doesn't > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > >> >> bark > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > >> >> > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > >> >> and > >> >> (b) > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > >> >> without > >> >> unlooping. > >> >> > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > >> >> > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > >> >>> > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > >> >>> > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > >> >>>as > >> >>>part of the structure? > >> >>> > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > >> >>> > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > >> >>>talking > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > >> >>> > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > sure > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > >> >>> > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > fast > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > >> >>>walls. > >> >>> > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > >> >>> > >> >>>Mike > >> >>> > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > >> >> > >> >> then > >> >> > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > In > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > >> >> > >> >> Hard!. > >> >> > >> >>>>>Mike > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > >> >> > >> >> us a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > >> >> > >> >> Strap > >> >> > >> >>>>1 > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Strap 1, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > >> >>>> > >> >>>>break > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > >> >>>>>>have > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > >> >> > >> >> and > >> >> > >> >>>>have > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > >> >> > >> >> dowel > >> >> > >> >>>>out > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > >> >> > >> >> some > >> >> > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > >> >> > >> >> looped > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>straps > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>dowel, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > >> >>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > >> >>>> > >> >>>>recently a > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>dowel > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > >> >>>> > >> >>>>shed....I > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > >> >> > >> >> tugging > >> >> > >> >>>>and > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>what > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > >> >> > >> >> happen > >> >> > >> >>>>in > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>my > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > >> >>>> > >> >>>>animals... > >> >>>> > >> >> > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my opinion, > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together and > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could potentially > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > Jerry > -- > Jerry Bransford > PP-ASEL N6TAY > See the Geezer Jeep at > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > Jerry, > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > demonstrated > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > as > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > dowel, > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > would > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > dowel > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > energy > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > steel that broke off. > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > sure > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > >> being > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > >> impossible to separate. > >> > >> Jerry > >> -- > >> Jerry Bransford > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > >> > Thanks in advance > >> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > >> >> 2" > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > >> >> the > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > >> >> doesn't > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > >> >> bark > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > >> >> > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > >> >> and > >> >> (b) > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > >> >> without > >> >> unlooping. > >> >> > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > >> >> > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > >> >>> > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > >> >>> > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > >> >>>as > >> >>>part of the structure? > >> >>> > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > >> >>> > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > >> >>>talking > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > >> >>> > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > sure > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > >> >>> > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > fast > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > >> >>>walls. > >> >>> > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > >> >>> > >> >>>Mike > >> >>> > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > >> >> > >> >> then > >> >> > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > In > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > >> >> > >> >> Hard!. > >> >> > >> >>>>>Mike > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > >> >> > >> >> us a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > >> >> > >> >> Strap > >> >> > >> >>>>1 > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Strap 1, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > >> >>>> > >> >>>>break > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > >> >>>>>>have > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > >> >> > >> >> and > >> >> > >> >>>>have > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > >> >> > >> >> dowel > >> >> > >> >>>>out > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > >> >> > >> >> some > >> >> > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > >> >> > >> >> looped > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>straps > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>dowel, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > >> >>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > >> >>>> > >> >>>>recently a > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>dowel > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > >> >>>> > >> >>>>shed....I > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > >> >> > >> >> tugging > >> >> > >> >>>>and > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>what > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > >> >> > >> >> happen > >> >> > >> >>>>in > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>my > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > >> >>>> > >> >>>>animals... > >> >>>> > >> >> > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my opinion, > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together and > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could potentially > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > Jerry > -- > Jerry Bransford > PP-ASEL N6TAY > See the Geezer Jeep at > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > Jerry, > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > demonstrated > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > as > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > dowel, > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > would > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > dowel > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > energy > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > steel that broke off. > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > sure > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > >> being > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > >> impossible to separate. > >> > >> Jerry > >> -- > >> Jerry Bransford > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > >> > Thanks in advance > >> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > >> >> 2" > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a > >> >> the > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > >> >> doesn't > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the > >> >> bark > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > >> >> > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > >> >> and > >> >> (b) > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > >> >> without > >> >> unlooping. > >> >> > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > >> >> > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > >> >>> > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > >> >>> > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > >> >>>as > >> >>>part of the structure? > >> >>> > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > >> >>> > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > >> >>>talking > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > >> >>> > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > sure > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > >> >>> > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > >> >>> > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > fast > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure. > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > >> >>>walls. > >> >>> > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > >> >>> > >> >>>Mike > >> >>> > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding > >> >> > >> >> then > >> >> > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > In > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > >> >> > >> >> Hard!. > >> >> > >> >>>>>Mike > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed > >> >> > >> >> us a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > >> >> > >> >> Strap > >> >> > >> >>>>1 > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Strap 1, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will > >> >>>> > >> >>>>break > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > >> >>>>>>have > >> >> > >> >> a > >> >> > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > >> >> > >> >> and > >> >> > >> >>>>have > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > >> >> > >> >> dowel > >> >> > >> >>>>out > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure > >> >> > >> >> some > >> >> > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > >> >> > >> >> looped > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>straps > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>dowel, > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > >> >>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > >> >>>> > >> >>>>recently a > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel > >> >> > >> >> to > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the > >> >>>> > >> >>>>dowel > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > >> >> > >> >> the > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > >> >>>> > >> >>>>shed....I > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > >> >> > >> >> tugging > >> >> > >> >>>>and > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>what > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>I > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > >> >> > >> >> happen > >> >> > >> >>>>in > >> >>>> > >> >>>>>>my > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > >> >>>> > >> >>>>animals... > >> >>>> > >> >> > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > >> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>-- > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel. Mike Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my > opinion, > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together > and > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could > potentially > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > > Jerry, > > > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > > demonstrated > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > > as > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, > we're > > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > > dowel, > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > > would > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > > dowel > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > > energy > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > > steel that broke off. > > > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long > strap > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > > sure > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. > The > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > > >> being > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > >> impossible to separate. > > >> > > >> Jerry > > >> -- > > >> Jerry Bransford > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > >> > Thanks in advance > > >> > > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > > >> >> 2" > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using > a > > >> >> the > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> >> doesn't > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip > the > > >> >> bark > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> >> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > > >> >> and > > >> >> (b) > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > > >> >> without > > >> >> unlooping. > > >> >> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> >> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > > >> >>>as > > >> >>>part of the structure? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer > handle > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by > just > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > > >> >>>talking > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > > sure > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' > in > > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > > fast > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under > pressure. > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >> >>>walls. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Mike > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are > holding > > >> >> > > >> >> then > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, > two > > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > > In > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> >> > > >> >> Hard!. > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>Mike > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he > showed > > >> >> > > >> >> us a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> >> > > >> >> Strap > > >> >> > > >> >>>>1 > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop > of > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it > will > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>break > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > > >> >>>>>>have > > >> >> > > >> >> a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> >> > > >> >> and > > >> >> > > >> >>>>have > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> >> > > >> >> dowel > > >> >> > > >> >>>>out > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am > sure > > >> >> > > >> >> some > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> >> > > >> >> looped > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>straps > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>dowel, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other > due > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > > >> >>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>recently a > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden > dowel > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe > the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>dowel > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>shed....I > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our > friend... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> >> > > >> >> tugging > > >> >> > > >> >>>>and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> >> > > >> >> happen > > >> >> > > >> >>>>in > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>my > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>animals... > > >> >>>> > > >> >> > > > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel. Mike Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my > opinion, > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together > and > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could > potentially > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > > Jerry, > > > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > > demonstrated > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > > as > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, > we're > > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > > dowel, > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > > would > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > > dowel > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > > energy > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > > steel that broke off. > > > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long > strap > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > > sure > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. > The > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > > >> being > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > >> impossible to separate. > > >> > > >> Jerry > > >> -- > > >> Jerry Bransford > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > >> > Thanks in advance > > >> > > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > > >> >> 2" > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using > a > > >> >> the > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> >> doesn't > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip > the > > >> >> bark > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> >> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > > >> >> and > > >> >> (b) > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > > >> >> without > > >> >> unlooping. > > >> >> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> >> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > > >> >>>as > > >> >>>part of the structure? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer > handle > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by > just > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > > >> >>>talking > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > > sure > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' > in > > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > > fast > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under > pressure. > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >> >>>walls. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Mike > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are > holding > > >> >> > > >> >> then > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, > two > > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > > In > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> >> > > >> >> Hard!. > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>Mike > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he > showed > > >> >> > > >> >> us a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> >> > > >> >> Strap > > >> >> > > >> >>>>1 > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop > of > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it > will > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>break > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > > >> >>>>>>have > > >> >> > > >> >> a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> >> > > >> >> and > > >> >> > > >> >>>>have > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> >> > > >> >> dowel > > >> >> > > >> >>>>out > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am > sure > > >> >> > > >> >> some > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> >> > > >> >> looped > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>straps > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>dowel, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other > due > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > > >> >>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>recently a > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden > dowel > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe > the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>dowel > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>shed....I > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our > friend... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> >> > > >> >> tugging > > >> >> > > >> >>>>and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> >> > > >> >> happen > > >> >> > > >> >>>>in > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>my > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>animals... > > >> >>>> > > >> >> > > > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: Michigan Jeepers Loose member to strapping accident..
If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel. Mike Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However, > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the stuck > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface, in > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with. > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05... > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my > opinion, > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of wood > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means variable > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps together > and > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done. At > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could > potentially > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles. > > > > Jerry > > -- > > Jerry Bransford > > PP-ASEL N6TAY > > See the Geezer Jeep at > > http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com... > > > Jerry, > > > > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he > > > demonstrated > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel > > > as > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, > we're > > > not talking about a small piece of wood. > > > > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the > > > dowel, > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps > > > would > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the > > > dowel > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some > > > energy > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of > > > steel that broke off. > > > > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long > strap > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance. > > > > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05... > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be > > > sure > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. > The > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from > > >> being > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly > > >> impossible to separate. > > >> > > >> Jerry > > >> -- > > >> Jerry Bransford > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca... > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-) > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope > > >> > Thanks in advance > > >> > > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a > > >> >> 2" > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using > a > > >> >> the > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel > > >> >> doesn't > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip > the > > >> >> bark > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you. > > >> >> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself > > >> >> and > > >> >> (b) > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart > > >> >> without > > >> >> unlooping. > > >> >> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca... > > >> >> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick > > >> >>>as > > >> >>>part of the structure? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer > handle > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by > just > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are > > >> >>>talking > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree? > > >> >>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and 'snatch' a stuck vehicle using vehicle > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I > > > sure > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' > in > > >> >>>the equation!!!!! > > >> >>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how > > > fast > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under > pressure. > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete > > >> >>>walls. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick. > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Mike > > >> >>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith... > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca... > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-( > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are > holding > > >> >> > > >> >> then > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, > two > > >> >>>>>locked together loops. > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure. > > > In > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped. > > >> >> > > >> >> Hard!. > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>Mike > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote: > > >> >>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he > showed > > >> >> > > >> >> us a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of > > >> >> > > >> >> Strap > > >> >> > > >> >>>>1 > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop > of > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it > will > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>break > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should > > >> >>>>>>have > > >> >> > > >> >> a > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times > > >> >> > > >> >> and > > >> >> > > >> >>>>have > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the > > >> >> > > >> >> dowel > > >> >> > > >> >>>>out > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am > sure > > >> >> > > >> >> some > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy. > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@cox.net> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be) > > >> >> > > >> >> looped > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>straps > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>dowel, > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other > due > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull. > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry > > >> >>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/ > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com... > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad.... > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>recently a > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden > dowel > > >> >> > > >> >> to > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe > the > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>dowel > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have > > >> >> > > >> >> the > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile. > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead? > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>shed....I > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our > friend... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on > > >> >> > > >> >> tugging > > >> >> > > >> >>>>and > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use... > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis.... > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this > > >> >> > > >> >> happen > > >> >> > > >> >>>>in > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>>>my > > >> >>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes... > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased... > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers.... > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. .. > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous > > >> >>>> > > >> >>>>animals... > > >> >>>> > > >> >> > > > > http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210 > > >> >> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1 > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race. > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>>>-- > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____], > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O- > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_) > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > |
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