Not really.

My friend who was off to the side watching is still alive....

Mike

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> > No!
> >
> > He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> > two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > > earlier?
> > >
> > > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
> had in
> > > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> tree
> > > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
> too worn
> > > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
> > > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
> against an
> > > > immobile tree.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
> > > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> straps
> > > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
> > > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > > >
> > > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
> > > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
> seemed the
> > > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
> "toggle"
> > > > strap.
> > > >
> > > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > > >
> > > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
> the
> > > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> last
> > > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > > >
> > > > My conclusions:
> > > >
> > > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
> > > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> mud)
> > > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > > >
> > > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
> of the
> > > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
> but
> > > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
> > > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
> onto the
> > > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
> > > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
> the
> > > > more force is required to break it.
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> probably
> > > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > > >
> > > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
> minimize the
> > > > danger.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > > >
> > > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
> opposite
> > > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
> ballistically
> > > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
> > > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > > >
> > > > > Think sling shot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
> > > > at a
> > > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
> using a
> > > > clevis
> > > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
> ballistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> stronger
> > > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > > However,
> > > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
> a
> > > > safety
> > > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
> one of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
> happen is
> > > > the
> > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > > rockface,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

 

Not really.

My friend who was off to the side watching is still alive....

Mike

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D8E02.3212D23B@sympatico.ca...
> > No!
> >
> > He is blowing chunks of wood 100's of feet all over rather than having
> > two looped straps like this: http://xjeep.dyndns.org/slipstrap.jpg
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > aGraham wrote:
> > >
> > > I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> > > is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> > > earlier?
> > >
> > > In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I
> had in
> > > > the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a
> tree
> > > > in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was
> too worn
> > > > to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using
> the
> > > > toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs
> against an
> > > > immobile tree.
> > > >
> > > > I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> > > > I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8"
> deep.
> > > > Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the
> straps
> > > > to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of
> the
> > > > Jeep, about 100 feet away.
> > > >
> > > > Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four
> tugs,
> > > > when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> > > > somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It
> seemed the
> > > > direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the
> "toggle"
> > > > strap.
> > > >
> > > > Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
> > > >
> > > > On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but
> the
> > > > wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the
> last
> > > > pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
> > > >
> > > > My conclusions:
> > > >
> > > > (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2"
> hardwood
> > > > dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> > > > extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep
> mud)
> > > > would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
> > > >
> > > > (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end
> of the
> > > > strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away,
> but
> > > > generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the
> basis
> > > > for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook"
> onto the
> > > > strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less
> sideways
> > > > by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel,
> the
> > > > more force is required to break it.
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will
> probably
> > > > reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> > > > toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
> > > >
> > > > I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> > > > technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to
> minimize the
> > > > danger.
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > You need some basic physics Matt....
> > > > >
> > > > > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the
> opposite
> > > > > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces
> ballistically
> > > > > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go
> the
> > > > > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> > > > >
> > > > > Think sling shot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle,
> but
> > > > at a
> > > > > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like
> using a
> > > > clevis
> > > > > > to connect straps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go
> ballistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a
> stronger
> > > > > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> > > > However,
> > > > > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as
> a
> > > > safety
> > > > > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off
> one of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would
> happen is
> > > > the
> > > > > > stuck
> > > > > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> > > > rockface,
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
> > >
> > > --
> > > o_o_o_o
> > > /| ,[_____],
> > > |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
> > > ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)

 

Mike's told of his gas tank doing that. ;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

 

Mike's told of his gas tank doing that. ;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

 

Mike's told of his gas tank doing that. ;-)
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Beats having a rear crossmember flying down the trail :-)

 

It takes the Nova Scotia to pull out the diagram!
Way to go Steve!!! lol
That is exactly how we were taught in our club and at The Jeep Jamboree
Canada in Nova Scotia...
Jeff

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:2t543eF1rs675U1@uni-berlin.de...
> When I was about 8 my Dad had a 62 International Travel-all. We were in
Baja
> at Estero Beach, and a whale had washed up.
> We watched the Mexicans try to get it back into the water, then they
decided
> to eat it or something, so a cop shot it a few times. They enlisted Dad's
> help to try and pull it up the beach.
> They wrapped a chain around it's tail, and Dad started pulling.
> I was in the back of the rig, watching out of the tailgate window when the
> beast moved it's tail and the chain parted at the rearmost hook.
> It flew up and left a line of dents on the roof and hood from bumper to
> bumper. It could have been a lot worse.
> Be careful.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

 

It takes the Nova Scotia to pull out the diagram!
Way to go Steve!!! lol
That is exactly how we were taught in our club and at The Jeep Jamboree
Canada in Nova Scotia...
Jeff

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:2t543eF1rs675U1@uni-berlin.de...
> When I was about 8 my Dad had a 62 International Travel-all. We were in
Baja
> at Estero Beach, and a whale had washed up.
> We watched the Mexicans try to get it back into the water, then they
decided
> to eat it or something, so a cop shot it a few times. They enlisted Dad's
> help to try and pull it up the beach.
> They wrapped a chain around it's tail, and Dad started pulling.
> I was in the back of the rig, watching out of the tailgate window when the
> beast moved it's tail and the chain parted at the rearmost hook.
> It flew up and left a line of dents on the roof and hood from bumper to
> bumper. It could have been a lot worse.
> Be careful.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

 

It takes the Nova Scotia to pull out the diagram!
Way to go Steve!!! lol
That is exactly how we were taught in our club and at The Jeep Jamboree
Canada in Nova Scotia...
Jeff

"Paul Calman" <spam@trap.com> wrote in message
news:2t543eF1rs675U1@uni-berlin.de...
> When I was about 8 my Dad had a 62 International Travel-all. We were in
Baja
> at Estero Beach, and a whale had washed up.
> We watched the Mexicans try to get it back into the water, then they
decided
> to eat it or something, so a cop shot it a few times. They enlisted Dad's
> help to try and pull it up the beach.
> They wrapped a chain around it's tail, and Dad started pulling.
> I was in the back of the rig, watching out of the tailgate window when the
> beast moved it's tail and the chain parted at the rearmost hook.
> It flew up and left a line of dents on the roof and hood from bumper to
> bumper. It could have been a lot worse.
> Be careful.
>
> --
> Paul Calman, Hathaway Pines, California
>
>

 

Quite the artist, ain't ya! ;p

And ya ...I wouldn't trust the toggle method ...that's putting a lot of
strain on that dowel. I think I'm just going to order the 4"x40' or 6"x50'
Nylon straps to try and avoid the problem altogether ...

"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:2t5imcF1rgkbuU1@uni-berlin.de...
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org/togglestrap.jpg
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > No, the toggle method is pulling the end of one strap through the end
loop
> > of the other, then inserting a dowel through the loop of the first
strap,
> > using the dowel as a "toggle" to lock teh straps together.
> >
> > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > news:aarongraham-012FA3.16130513102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> >
> >>I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> >>is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> >>earlier?

 

Quite the artist, ain't ya! ;p

And ya ...I wouldn't trust the toggle method ...that's putting a lot of
strain on that dowel. I think I'm just going to order the 4"x40' or 6"x50'
Nylon straps to try and avoid the problem altogether ...

"Steve" <xjlifter@bogus.com> wrote in message
news:2t5imcF1rgkbuU1@uni-berlin.de...
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org/togglestrap.jpg
>
> Steve
> http://xjeep.dyndns.org
>
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > No, the toggle method is pulling the end of one strap through the end
loop
> > of the other, then inserting a dowel through the loop of the first
strap,
> > using the dowel as a "toggle" to lock teh straps together.
> >
> > "aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
> > news:aarongraham-012FA3.16130513102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
> >
> >>I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
> >>is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
> >>earlier?