actually...for the forces typically asserted during 'yank' pulls...that IS a
small piece of wood.

there's the argument of hardwood versus softwood.....sure....but still.

Was he trying to show you guys that a dowel COULD be used to stop the straps
from getting cinched too tight together? It is a bit of a pain to setup the
straps JUST to illustrate that a dowel can be used to keep them separate.

Regardless of how he showed you guys....do it as the image from Steve (the
other one) shows....el fini!

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Jerry,
>
> Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
> demonstrated
> using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel
> as
> a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're
> not talking about a small piece of wood.
>
> The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
> dowel,
> and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who
> should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
> would
> immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
> dowel
> broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
> energy
> that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
> steel that broke off.
>
> By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap
> out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
> bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be
> sure
>> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The
>> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> being
>> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> impossible to separate.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a
>> >> 2"
>> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
>> >> the
>> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> doesn't
>> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
>> >> bark
>> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >>
>> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> and
>> >> (b)
>> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> without
>> >> unlooping.
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >>
>> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >>>
>> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >>>
>> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
>> >>>as
>> >>>part of the structure?
>> >>>
>> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >>>
>> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
>> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
>> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >>>talking
>> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >>>
>> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
>> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
>> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >>>
>> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
>> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
>> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >>>walls.
>> >>>
>> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike
>> >>>
>> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding
>> >>
>> >> then
>> >>
>> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two
>> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
>> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >>
>> >> Hard!.
>> >>
>> >>>>>Mike
>> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed
>> >>
>> >> us a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of
>> >>
>> >> Strap
>> >>
>> >>>>1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will
>> >>>>
>> >>>>break
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >>>>>>have
>> >>
>> >> a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >>>>have
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >>
>> >> dowel
>> >>
>> >>>>out
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure
>> >>
>> >> some
>> >>
>> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >>
>> >> looped
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>straps
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>dowel,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >>>>
>> >>>>recently a
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>dowel
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >>>>
>> >>>>shed....I
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >>
>> >> tugging
>> >>
>> >>>>and
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >>
>> >> happen
>> >>
>> >>>>in
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>my
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >>>>
>> >>>>animals...
>> >>>>
>> >>
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

actually...for the forces typically asserted during 'yank' pulls...that IS a
small piece of wood.

there's the argument of hardwood versus softwood.....sure....but still.

Was he trying to show you guys that a dowel COULD be used to stop the straps
from getting cinched too tight together? It is a bit of a pain to setup the
straps JUST to illustrate that a dowel can be used to keep them separate.

Regardless of how he showed you guys....do it as the image from Steve (the
other one) shows....el fini!

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Jerry,
>
> Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
> demonstrated
> using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel
> as
> a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're
> not talking about a small piece of wood.
>
> The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
> dowel,
> and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who
> should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
> would
> immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
> dowel
> broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
> energy
> that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
> steel that broke off.
>
> By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap
> out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
> bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be
> sure
>> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The
>> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> being
>> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> impossible to separate.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a
>> >> 2"
>> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
>> >> the
>> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> doesn't
>> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
>> >> bark
>> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >>
>> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> and
>> >> (b)
>> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> without
>> >> unlooping.
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >>
>> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >>>
>> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >>>
>> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
>> >>>as
>> >>>part of the structure?
>> >>>
>> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >>>
>> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
>> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
>> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >>>talking
>> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >>>
>> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
>> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
>> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >>>
>> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
>> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
>> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >>>walls.
>> >>>
>> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike
>> >>>
>> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding
>> >>
>> >> then
>> >>
>> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two
>> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
>> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >>
>> >> Hard!.
>> >>
>> >>>>>Mike
>> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed
>> >>
>> >> us a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of
>> >>
>> >> Strap
>> >>
>> >>>>1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will
>> >>>>
>> >>>>break
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >>>>>>have
>> >>
>> >> a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >>>>have
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >>
>> >> dowel
>> >>
>> >>>>out
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure
>> >>
>> >> some
>> >>
>> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >>
>> >> looped
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>straps
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>dowel,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >>>>
>> >>>>recently a
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>dowel
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >>>>
>> >>>>shed....I
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >>
>> >> tugging
>> >>
>> >>>>and
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >>
>> >> happen
>> >>
>> >>>>in
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>my
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >>>>
>> >>>>animals...
>> >>>>
>> >>
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

actually...for the forces typically asserted during 'yank' pulls...that IS a
small piece of wood.

there's the argument of hardwood versus softwood.....sure....but still.

Was he trying to show you guys that a dowel COULD be used to stop the straps
from getting cinched too tight together? It is a bit of a pain to setup the
straps JUST to illustrate that a dowel can be used to keep them separate.

Regardless of how he showed you guys....do it as the image from Steve (the
other one) shows....el fini!

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Jerry,
>
> Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
> demonstrated
> using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the dowel
> as
> a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2' diameter, we're
> not talking about a small piece of wood.
>
> The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be the
> dowel,
> and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders (who
> should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the straps
> would
> immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before the
> dowel
> broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb some
> energy
> that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb piece of
> steel that broke off.
>
> By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long strap
> out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks, meaning
> bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe distance.
>
> "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
> news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration but be
> sure
>> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each other. The
>> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them from
>> being
>> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're nearly
>> impossible to separate.
>>
>> Jerry
>> --
>> Jerry Bransford
>> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > Thanks in advance
>> >
>> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated with a
>> >> 2"
>> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it, using a
>> >> the
>> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The dowel
>> >> doesn't
>> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and strip the
>> >> bark
>> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> >>
>> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on itself
>> >> and
>> >> (b)
>> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> >> without
>> >> unlooping.
>> >>
>> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> >>
>> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be stupid
>> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> >>>
>> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> >>>
>> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a knot
>> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the stick
>> >>>as
>> >>>part of the structure?
>> >>>
>> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> >>>
>> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer handle
>> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one by just
>> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> >>>talking
>> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> >>>
>> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using vehicle
>> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers off, I
> sure
>> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the 'fuse' in
>> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> >>>
>> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just how
> fast
>> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under pressure.
>> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through concrete
>> >>>walls.
>> >>>
>> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the stick.
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike
>> >>>
>> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just goes
>> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are holding
>> >>
>> >> then
>> >>
>> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop. Bingo, two
>> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under pressure.
> In
>> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be slapped.
>> >>
>> >> Hard!.
>> >>
>> >>>>>Mike
>> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he showed
>> >>
>> >> us a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the end of
>> >>
>> >> Strap
>> >>
>> >>>>1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the loop of
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Strap 1,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks, it will
>> >>>>
>> >>>>break
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It should
>> >>>>>>have
>> >>
>> >> a
>> >>
>> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several times
>> >>
>> >> and
>> >>
>> >>>>have
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip the
>> >>
>> >> dowel
>> >>
>> >>>>out
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I am sure
>> >>
>> >> some
>> >>
>> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should be)
>> >>
>> >> looped
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be there so
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>straps
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed. Without
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>dowel,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each other due
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> >>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past, but
>> >>>>
>> >>>>recently a
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden dowel
>> >>
>> >> to
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would believe the
>> >>>>
>> >>>>dowel
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not have
>> >>
>> >> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have been
>> >>>>
>> >>>>shed....I
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our friend...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> >>
>> >> tugging
>> >>
>> >>>>and
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>what
>> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together by a
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>I
>> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let this
>> >>
>> >> happen
>> >>
>> >>>>in
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>>my
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> >>>>
>> >>>>animals...
>> >>>>
>> >>
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>--
>> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

 

well....you can do whatever calculations you want on paper and give the
chance and probability of what may happen....but why risk it!!

I think everyone here knows whats the proper way to do it.....tell ya
what...if you get stuck and want to do it your way...then have the courtesy
to ask everyone else to step away while you yank it yourself. That way, IF
anything does happen, it won't hurt/injure anyone else.


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:MrWdneBUN4hiw_DcRVn-ow@comcast.com...
> If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but at
> a
> 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> clevis
> to connect straps.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
>>
>> Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
>> > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
>> > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
>> > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
>> > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
>> > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface,
> in
>> > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
>> > opinion,
>> > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
> wood
>> > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means
> variable
>> > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps
> together
>> > and
>> > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done.
> At
>> > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
>> > potentially
>> > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>> > >
>> > > Jerry
>> > > --
>> > > Jerry Bransford
>> > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > > > Jerry,
>> > > >
>> > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > > > demonstrated
>> > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
> dowel
>> > > > as
>> > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2'
>> > > > diameter,
>> > we're
>> > > > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> > > >
>> > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be
> the
>> > > > dowel,
>> > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
> (who
>> > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the
> straps
>> > > > would
>> > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before
> the
>> > > > dowel
>> > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb
> some
>> > > > energy
>> > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb
>> > > > piece
> of
>> > > > steel that broke off.
>> > > >
>> > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
>> > strap
>> > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks,
> meaning
>> > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe
>> > > > distance.
>> > > >
>> > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration
> but be
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each
> other.
>> > The
>> > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them
> from
>> > > >> being
>> > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're
> nearly
>> > > >> impossible to separate.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Jerry
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > > >> > Thanks in advance
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated
> with a
>> > > >> >> 2"
>> > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
> using
>> > a
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The
> dowel
>> > > >> >> doesn't
>> > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and
> strip
>> > the
>> > > >> >> bark
>> > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on
> itself
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >> (b)
>> > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> > > >> >> without
>> > > >> >> unlooping.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be
> stupid
>> > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a
> knot
>> > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
> stick
>> > > >> >>>as
>> > > >> >>>part of the structure?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
>> > handle
>> > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one
>> > > >> >>>by
>> > just
>> > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> > > >> >>>talking
>> > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using
> vehicle
>> > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers
> off, I
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the
> 'fuse'
>> > in
>> > > >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just
> how
>> > > > fast
>> > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
>> > pressure.
>> > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through
> concrete
>> > > >> >>>walls.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the
> stick.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just
> goes
>> > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
>> > holding
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> then
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop.
> Bingo,
>> > two
>> > > >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
> pressure.
>> > > > In
>> > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be
> slapped.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Hard!.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
>> > showed
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> us a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the
> end of
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Strap
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>1
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the
> loop
>> > of
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks,
> it
>> > will
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>break
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It
> should
>> > > >> >>>>>>have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>have
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip
> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>out
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I
> am
>> > sure
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> some
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should
> be)
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> looped
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be
> there so
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>straps
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each
> other
>> > due
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> > > >> >>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>recently a
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
>> > dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would
> believe
>> > the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>shed....I
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
>> > friend...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> tugging
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>and
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together
> by a
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let
> this
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> happen
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>in
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>my
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>animals...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>
>

 

well....you can do whatever calculations you want on paper and give the
chance and probability of what may happen....but why risk it!!

I think everyone here knows whats the proper way to do it.....tell ya
what...if you get stuck and want to do it your way...then have the courtesy
to ask everyone else to step away while you yank it yourself. That way, IF
anything does happen, it won't hurt/injure anyone else.


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:MrWdneBUN4hiw_DcRVn-ow@comcast.com...
> If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but at
> a
> 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> clevis
> to connect straps.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
>>
>> Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
>> > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
>> > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
>> > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
>> > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
>> > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface,
> in
>> > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
>> > opinion,
>> > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
> wood
>> > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means
> variable
>> > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps
> together
>> > and
>> > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done.
> At
>> > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
>> > potentially
>> > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>> > >
>> > > Jerry
>> > > --
>> > > Jerry Bransford
>> > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > > > Jerry,
>> > > >
>> > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > > > demonstrated
>> > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
> dowel
>> > > > as
>> > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2'
>> > > > diameter,
>> > we're
>> > > > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> > > >
>> > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be
> the
>> > > > dowel,
>> > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
> (who
>> > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the
> straps
>> > > > would
>> > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before
> the
>> > > > dowel
>> > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb
> some
>> > > > energy
>> > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb
>> > > > piece
> of
>> > > > steel that broke off.
>> > > >
>> > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
>> > strap
>> > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks,
> meaning
>> > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe
>> > > > distance.
>> > > >
>> > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration
> but be
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each
> other.
>> > The
>> > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them
> from
>> > > >> being
>> > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're
> nearly
>> > > >> impossible to separate.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Jerry
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > > >> > Thanks in advance
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated
> with a
>> > > >> >> 2"
>> > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
> using
>> > a
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The
> dowel
>> > > >> >> doesn't
>> > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and
> strip
>> > the
>> > > >> >> bark
>> > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on
> itself
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >> (b)
>> > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> > > >> >> without
>> > > >> >> unlooping.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be
> stupid
>> > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a
> knot
>> > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
> stick
>> > > >> >>>as
>> > > >> >>>part of the structure?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
>> > handle
>> > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one
>> > > >> >>>by
>> > just
>> > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> > > >> >>>talking
>> > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using
> vehicle
>> > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers
> off, I
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the
> 'fuse'
>> > in
>> > > >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just
> how
>> > > > fast
>> > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
>> > pressure.
>> > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through
> concrete
>> > > >> >>>walls.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the
> stick.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just
> goes
>> > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
>> > holding
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> then
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop.
> Bingo,
>> > two
>> > > >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
> pressure.
>> > > > In
>> > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be
> slapped.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Hard!.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
>> > showed
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> us a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the
> end of
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Strap
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>1
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the
> loop
>> > of
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks,
> it
>> > will
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>break
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It
> should
>> > > >> >>>>>>have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>have
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip
> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>out
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I
> am
>> > sure
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> some
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should
> be)
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> looped
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be
> there so
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>straps
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each
> other
>> > due
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> > > >> >>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>recently a
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
>> > dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would
> believe
>> > the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>shed....I
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
>> > friend...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> tugging
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>and
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together
> by a
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let
> this
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> happen
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>in
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>my
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>animals...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>
>

 

well....you can do whatever calculations you want on paper and give the
chance and probability of what may happen....but why risk it!!

I think everyone here knows whats the proper way to do it.....tell ya
what...if you get stuck and want to do it your way...then have the courtesy
to ask everyone else to step away while you yank it yourself. That way, IF
anything does happen, it won't hurt/injure anyone else.


"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:MrWdneBUN4hiw_DcRVn-ow@comcast.com...
> If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but at
> a
> 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> clevis
> to connect straps.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
>> If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
>>
>> Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> >
>> > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
>> > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method. However,
>> > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a safety
>> > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of the
>> > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is the
> stuck
>> > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a rockface,
> in
>> > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.
>> >
>> > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > news:Nhcbd.33528$_a3.17105@fed1read05...
>> > > But Matt, looping the straps through each other is, at least in my
>> > opinion,
>> > > a better/stronger/more secure method than joining them via a piece of
> wood
>> > > that with everyone's interpretation of what is suitable, means
> variable
>> > > suitability of the wood used. I'll continue looping tow straps
> together
>> > and
>> > > using the wood only as a means to help undo the loop after I'm done.
> At
>> > > least if the wood breaks, the loops won't come apart which could
>> > potentially
>> > > cause a problem for one of the two vehicles.
>> > >
>> > > Jerry
>> > > --
>> > > Jerry Bransford
>> > > PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:5IydnYChgqYc0_DcRVn-pg@comcast.com...
>> > > > Jerry,
>> > > >
>> > > > Mark Smith absolutely DID NOT loop the straps together when he
>> > > > demonstrated
>> > > > using the dowel at the 2000 Penns Woods Jeep Jamboree. He used the
> dowel
>> > > > as
>> > > > a toggle to connect the two straps. It was probably 2 1/2'
>> > > > diameter,
>> > we're
>> > > > not talking about a small piece of wood.
>> > > >
>> > > > The point being that if something breaks, most likely it would be
> the
>> > > > dowel,
>> > > > and it would break in such a way to minimize the risk to bystanders
> (who
>> > > > should already be at a safe distance). And if it did break, the
> straps
>> > > > would
>> > > > immediately disconnect. If something on either truck broke before
> the
>> > > > dowel
>> > > > broke, the toggle connection would immediately loosen and absorb
> some
>> > > > energy
>> > > > that would otherwise be transmitted down the strap to the 3-lb
>> > > > piece
> of
>> > > > steel that broke off.
>> > > >
>> > > > By connecting the straps directly, you effectively have a very long
>> > strap
>> > > > out of two straps that will not disconnect if something breaks,
> meaning
>> > > > bystanders would have to move farther away to be at a safe
>> > > > distance.
>> > > >
>> > > > "Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > > news:8_bbd.33425$_a3.23030@fed1read05...
>> > > >> I got confused over how it was put together in the demonstration
> but be
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> to remember that the straps do need to be looped through each
> other.
>> > The
>> > > >> inserted dowel or whatever is inserted only serves to keep them
> from
>> > > >> being
>> > > >> pulled into each other so tightly during the pull that they're
> nearly
>> > > >> impossible to separate.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Jerry
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> "FrankW" <fworm@mxznorpak.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> news:rI-dnRHKCtRv2_DcRVn-ug@magma.ca...
>> > > >> >I never did get my knot badge from scouts :-)
>> > > >> > Can someone please provide a picture or diagram
>> > > >> > to explain this method. for both straps and rope
>> > > >> > Thanks in advance
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >> Down boy. I said that tongue-in-cheek. Mr. Smith demonstrated
> with a
>> > > >> >> 2"
>> > > >> >> hardwood dowel. How he instructed us is exactly how I said it,
> using
>> > a
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >> dowel as a toggle through the loop of one of the straps. The
> dowel
>> > > >> >> doesn't
>> > > >> >> see impact forces. I never said he'd cut down a sapling and
> strip
>> > the
>> > > >> >> bark
>> > > >> >> off. It's just something you carry with you.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> It stuck with me because (a) he never looped a strap back on
> itself
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >> (b)
>> > > >> >> as soon as he pulled the dowel out, the straps came right apart
>> > > >> >> without
>> > > >> >> unlooping.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >> news:416D3EDB.22505CF4@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>Wow, that is freaking amazing!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I cannot believe someone who seems so 'Jeep savvy' would be
> stupid
>> > > >> >>>enough to rely on an unknown stick to trust his life too.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Maybe he has a death wish?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Are you sure you just didn't mistake his using the stick as a
> knot
>> > > >> >>>holder like I describe below so it can be undone for using the
> stick
>> > > >> >>>as
>> > > >> >>>part of the structure?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>My straps are rated for 30,000 lb each.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>The shear force on a baseball bat or on an ax handle or hammer
>> > handle
>> > > >> >>>under impact is 'not' very high. I have busted more than one
>> > > >> >>>by
>> > just
>> > > >> >>>hitting a ball or a log or a board slightly wrong. And you are
>> > > >> >>>talking
>> > > >> >>>an unknown freaking chunk of tree?
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>So when I take my Jeep and '******' a stuck vehicle using
> vehicle
>> > > >> >>>momentum to the point of breaking a strap or ripping bumpers
> off, I
>> > > > sure
>> > > >> >>>as hell wouldn't want to be relying on a stupid stick as the
> 'fuse'
>> > in
>> > > >> >>>the equation!!!!!
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>That would just be suicidal. Literally.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>I would recommend you watch a Logger's safety video to see just
> how
>> > > > fast
>> > > >> >>>and hard pieces or chips of wood will fly when broken under
>> > pressure.
>> > > >> >>>Or even hurricane test videos where 2x4's go right through
> concrete
>> > > >> >>>walls.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Sorry Matt, but you must be mistaken on the placement of the
> stick.
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>
>> > > >> >>>>Mark Smith...
>> > > >> >>>>http://jeepjamboreeusa.com/aboutus.htm
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Like Steve said, it's a tree with the bark peeled off...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>news:416C52F5.D28CAF86@sympatico.ca...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>He just didn't know the right way to use the dowel. :-(
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>You put the two loops together so they lock. The dowel just
> goes
>> > > >> >>>>>between them so you can pry them apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Hole one loop up. Put second strap's loop over one you are
>> > holding
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> then
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>feed the second straps other end through the first loop.
> Bingo,
>> > two
>> > > >> >>>>>locked together loops.
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Wood can go just as ballistic as steel if it snaps under
> pressure.
>> > > > In
>> > > >> >>>>>my mind the person who showed you that method should be
> slapped.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Hard!.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>Mike
>> > > >> >>>>>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > > >> >>>>>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I met Mark Smith at a Jeep Jamboree a few years ago, and he
>> > showed
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> us a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>different way of connecting straps with a dowel...pull the
> end of
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> Strap
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>1
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>through the loop of Strap 2, then insert the dowel into the
> loop
>> > of
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>Strap 1,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>essentially making the dowel a toggle. If the dowel breaks,
> it
>> > will
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>break
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>inward, and the wood pieces won't fly toward either vehicle.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I made a dowel out of a hardwood sledgehammer handle. It
> should
>> > > >> >>>>>>have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> a
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>minimum diameter of 2 inches. I've used this method several
> times
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> and
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>have
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>yet to have a problem with breakage, and when done, you slip
> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>out
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>and the two straps instantly come apart.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>I've never personally met the fellow that was killed, but I
> am
>> > sure
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> some
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>members of my off-road club know him. What a tragedy.
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>news:R0Tad.29426$_a3.9250@fed1read05...
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>The dowel doesn't really hold the straps, they are (should
> be)
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> looped
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>through each other. The dowel is only (should only) be
> there so
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>straps
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>can be pulled apart after the pull has been completed.
> Without
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel,
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>they can be difficult to disengage the straps from each
> other
>> > due
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>force of the pull.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry
>> > > >> >>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>Jerry Bransford
>> > > >> >>>>>>>PP-ASEL N6TAY
>> > > >> >>>>>>>See the Geezer Jeep at
>> > > >> >>>>>>>http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
>> > > >> >>>>>>>"aGraham" <aarongraham@mac.com.removeme> wrote in message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
> news:aarongraham-86F2F0.11170112102004@corp-radius.supernews.com...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Very sad....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>I know I have used a clevis for this purpose in the past,
> but
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>recently a
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>wheeling buddy showed me how to use a 1.5" diameter wooden
>> > dowel
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> to
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>connect 2 straps when one is not long enough. Would
> believe
>> > the
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>dowel
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>would be the first thing to break, or if not it would not
> have
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> the
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>weight/inertia to become a projectile.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>Any one have any ideas/cautions on using this instead?
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>In article <OaSad.79414$vO1.445558@nnrp1.uunet.ca>,
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>"Jeff" <jrhiltz@av.easlink.ca> wrote:
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>This is sooo sad....it breaks my heart...the tears have
> been
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>shed....I
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>don't
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know the man, but is a Jeeper and means he is all our
>> > friend...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I'm a new Jeeper and our club has had many discussions on
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> tugging
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>and
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>what
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>to use and not to use...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>and I have already seen this joining two straps together
> by a
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>cleavis....
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>I
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>know I will never see it again NOW....I will never let
> this
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> happen
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>in
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>my
>> > > >> >>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>presence as it has really opened my eyes...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>God Bless the family and friends of the deceased...
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>you are in our prayers....
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>Jeff
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>"JeepNutz" <jeepinDAMMITgene@ISAID.NO.SPAM> wrote in
> message
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>news:RhCad.243631$3l3.183113@attbi_s03. ..
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>> To all the newbies out there.. straps are dangerous
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>>>animals...
>> > > >> >>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >
>> >
> http://michiganjeepers.com/eve/ubb.x...109322&m=90210
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>6753&p=1
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Gene
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>Jeep, because life is an adventure, not a race.
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>>--
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> o_o_o_o
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> /| ,[_____],
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> |ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
>> > > >> >>>>>>>> ()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>>>>>>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>
>

 

I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had in
the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a tree
in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too worn
to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using the
toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against an
immobile tree.

I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8" deep.
Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the straps
to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of the
Jeep, about 100 feet away.

Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four tugs,
when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed the
direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
strap.

Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.

On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the last
pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.

My conclusions:

(a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2" hardwood
dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep mud)
would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.

(b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of the
strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the basis
for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto the
strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less sideways
by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
more force is required to break it.

Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will probably
reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.

I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize the
danger.

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> You need some basic physics Matt....
>
> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go the
> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>
> Think sling shot.
>
> Mike
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but
at a
> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
clevis
> > to connect straps.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> > >
> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
However,
> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
safety
> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of
the
> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is
the
> > stuck
> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
rockface,
> > in
> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.

 

I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had in
the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a tree
in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too worn
to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using the
toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against an
immobile tree.

I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8" deep.
Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the straps
to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of the
Jeep, about 100 feet away.

Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four tugs,
when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed the
direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
strap.

Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.

On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the last
pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.

My conclusions:

(a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2" hardwood
dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep mud)
would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.

(b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of the
strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the basis
for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto the
strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less sideways
by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
more force is required to break it.

Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will probably
reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.

I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize the
danger.

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> You need some basic physics Matt....
>
> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go the
> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>
> Think sling shot.
>
> Mike
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but
at a
> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
clevis
> > to connect straps.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> > >
> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
However,
> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
safety
> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of
the
> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is
the
> > stuck
> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
rockface,
> > in
> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.

 

I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had in
the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a tree
in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too worn
to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using the
toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against an
immobile tree.

I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8" deep.
Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the straps
to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of the
Jeep, about 100 feet away.

Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four tugs,
when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed the
direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
strap.

Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.

On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the last
pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.

My conclusions:

(a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2" hardwood
dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep mud)
would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.

(b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of the
strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the basis
for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto the
strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less sideways
by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
more force is required to break it.

Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will probably
reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.

I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize the
danger.

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> You need some basic physics Matt....
>
> The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go the
> same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
>
> Think sling shot.
>
> Mike
>
> Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> >
> > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but
at a
> > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
clevis
> > to connect straps.
> >
> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> > >
> > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
However,
> > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
safety
> > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of
the
> > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is
the
> > stuck
> > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
rockface,
> > in
> > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.

 

I have lost track ( and I am even the one who started the conversation)
is the "toggle method" tested below the same as the illustrated version
earlier?

In article <SPWdnZlBetCRFfDcRVn-gg@comcast.com>,
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

> I just performed a quick, unscientific test using some scrap wood I had in
> the garage, 3/4" x 1" pieces of pine. I attached one ****** strap to a tree
> in my backyard, 6" tree-saver to my Jeep (my other ****** strap was too worn
> to be safe, it went into the garbage). Connected the two straps using the
> toggle method. Couldn't get it to break after several hard tugs against an
> immobile tree.
>
> I wanted the wood to break to see what it would do.
> I took the piece and scored around the middle with a saw, about 1/8" deep.
> Took about three tugs but it did break. The pieces flew clear of the straps
> to at about a 60 degree angle to the straps, away and to the right of the
> Jeep, about 100 feet away.
>
> Tried it again with another prepared piece of wood. Took about four tugs,
> when it broke, the pieces cleared both sides of the strap, this time
> somewhat toward the Jeep, but not in the immediate direction. It seemed the
> direction the pieces would take depended on which strap was the "toggle"
> strap.
>
> Tried again, and this time the pieces shot straight down.
>
> On every test, the straps did snap back to each attachment point but the
> wood cleared the end of the straps before their motion stopped. On the last
> pull the strap attached to the Jeep landed on the hood.
>
> My conclusions:
>
> (a) Assuming the first, unprepared piece is not as strong as a 2" hardwood
> dowel, I think the dowel in toggle formation would be adequate for
> extractions like hi-center or mild stucks. Very hard extractions (deep mud)
> would require more than a ****** strap anyhow.
>
> (b) The wood would probably not follow the same trajectory as the end of the
> strap when the dowel breaks, though it might land much further away, but
> generally not in the vicinity of the towed vehicles. This is my the basis
> for my advocation of the toggle method...the dowel does not "hook" onto the
> strap when it lets go, but rather it is thrown clear more or less sideways
> by the force of the break itself. Of course, the stronger the dowel, the
> more force is required to break it.
>
> Like I said, this was an unscientific test. But based on it I will probably
> reconsider using the toggle method, after all. While I still think the
> toggle method is viable, better safe than sorry.
>
> I think we can all agree that no matter what you use, every extraction
> technique has its risks and every precaution should be taken to minimize the
> danger.
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:416D6B01.1947E282@sympatico.ca...
> > You need some basic physics Matt....
> >
> > The strap is stretched. When it lets go it heads back in the opposite
> > direction it was stretched from sending any loose pieces ballistically
> > in that direction. No matter a clevis, hook or dowel, they 'all' go the
> > same way if the loop grabs them and takes them along for the ride.
> >
> > Think sling shot.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > >
> > > If it goes ballistic, it won't go ballistic toward either vehicle, but
> at a
> > > 90 deg direction from the pull. Think about it. It's not like using a
> clevis
> > > to connect straps.
> > >
> > > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > > news:416D54C7.5EE6242A@sympatico.ca...
> > > > If the wood breaks using that method, it 'will' still go ballistic.
> > > >
> > > > Hard wood at ballistic speeds is just as dangerous as steel.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no doubt that looping the straps together may make a stronger
> > > > > connection, depending on the dowel used in the toggle method.
> However,
> > > > > IMHO, if the wood breaks using the toggle method, it served as a
> safety
> > > > > buffer by preventing something very seriod from breaking off one of
> the
> > > > > vehicles. If the straps disconnect, the worst that would happen is
> the
> > > stuck
> > > > > vehicle is still stuck. Unless you're trying to pull it up a
> rockface,
> > > in
> > > > > which case you shouldn't be using a tow strap to begin with.

--
o_o_o_o
/| ,[_____],
|ŻŻŻL --O|||||||O-
()_)Ż()_) ŻŻŻŻŻ )_)