DougW

Lon Stowell did pass the time by typing:
> Approximately 11/12/03 17:23, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>
>> You have less octane at altitude because you have less oxygen and
>> money.
>
> 1. I't don't ticka ticka at altitude, just around sea level.

Use a higher octane at sea level.


The higher you go the lower your compression will be and
so you can use lower octane.

I run 87 when in Colorado Springs. But have to run 93 and stay
out of max boost when down in Biloxi Mississippi.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors

DougW

Lon Stowell did pass the time by typing:
> Approximately 11/12/03 17:23, L.W.(ßill) ------ III uttered for posterity:
>
>> You have less octane at altitude because you have less oxygen and
>> money.
>
> 1. I't don't ticka ticka at altitude, just around sea level.

Use a higher octane at sea level.


The higher you go the lower your compression will be and
so you can use lower octane.

I run 87 when in Colorado Springs. But have to run 93 and stay
out of max boost when down in Biloxi Mississippi.

--
-- DougW -- 93 ZJ 4.0 http://members.***.net/wilsond
HESCO Supercharger - 300W IASCA Stereo - Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Gibson Exhaust - rear DCpower - custom gauge install - Stillen Rotors

Mike Romain

It goes down the throttle body or carb in a steady trickle. The engine
will bog, so you need to have your hand on the throttle to keep it from
stalling.

Likely 60 to 100 seconds for a pint.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok. I'm going to try the water thing. Before I do, though, I want to
> make sure I can somehow quantify your instructions.
>
> How slowly should I pour in the water? I don't want to damage the
> engine by accidentally going to fast, and I don't want to go so slow
> that it doesn't do any good. Should I remove the stock air intake
> tubing, to pour in the water, or is there another trick?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FB25DE0.432CB282@sympatico.ca>...
> > Both the ATF and/or the water go slowly down the intake.
> >
> > I have been told by lots of folks that water is as effective as ATF at
> > burning or shocking the carbon off.
> >
> > A good high rpm run also is good at cleaning the combustion chamber.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Model/Year: 1997 TJ w/4.0 I-6 and 5spd.
> > >
> > > Like I said before, I am not shifting too early or driving in too high
> > > a gear to cause the lugging in that way. I'm not sure if my clutch/gas
> > > modulation timing is screwed up; I've always thought I shifted ok, and
> > > have driven a standard for a good 5 or 6 years (5 of those years
> > > part-time...shared vehicle, then full time this last year since buying
> > > my jeep).
> > >
> > > Mike, you mentioned putting a pint of ATF or water in. You said to
> > > trickle the water down the air intake. What about the ATF option? Do I
> > > put it down the air intake also, or do I add it to the gas tank?
> > >
> > > Is this "lugging" noise always associated with pre-ignition, (i.e. is
> > > the noise I hear when a vehicle lugs down the sound of pre-ignition),
> > > or is there ever another cause of this particular noise? I'm still
> > > horrible at diagnosing particular noises coming from my engine, so I'm
> > > trying to learn. I always thought that noise of lugging down (which
> > > sounds very similar, whether I'm driving a jeep, a celica, or a
> > > sentra) was mostly harmless, though not something one wants to make
> > > happen.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice and help.
> > >
> > > "SteveG" <sg@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ahjsb.600$MP.4339@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> > > > What model/year Jeep do you have?
> > > >
> > > > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:47b769ae.0311110930.6fa8f559@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > > > > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> > > > >
> > > > > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > > > > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > > > > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > > > > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > > > > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > > > > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > > > > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > > > > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > > > > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > > > > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > > > > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > /Bob

Mike Romain

It goes down the throttle body or carb in a steady trickle. The engine
will bog, so you need to have your hand on the throttle to keep it from
stalling.

Likely 60 to 100 seconds for a pint.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok. I'm going to try the water thing. Before I do, though, I want to
> make sure I can somehow quantify your instructions.
>
> How slowly should I pour in the water? I don't want to damage the
> engine by accidentally going to fast, and I don't want to go so slow
> that it doesn't do any good. Should I remove the stock air intake
> tubing, to pour in the water, or is there another trick?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FB25DE0.432CB282@sympatico.ca>...
> > Both the ATF and/or the water go slowly down the intake.
> >
> > I have been told by lots of folks that water is as effective as ATF at
> > burning or shocking the carbon off.
> >
> > A good high rpm run also is good at cleaning the combustion chamber.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Model/Year: 1997 TJ w/4.0 I-6 and 5spd.
> > >
> > > Like I said before, I am not shifting too early or driving in too high
> > > a gear to cause the lugging in that way. I'm not sure if my clutch/gas
> > > modulation timing is screwed up; I've always thought I shifted ok, and
> > > have driven a standard for a good 5 or 6 years (5 of those years
> > > part-time...shared vehicle, then full time this last year since buying
> > > my jeep).
> > >
> > > Mike, you mentioned putting a pint of ATF or water in. You said to
> > > trickle the water down the air intake. What about the ATF option? Do I
> > > put it down the air intake also, or do I add it to the gas tank?
> > >
> > > Is this "lugging" noise always associated with pre-ignition, (i.e. is
> > > the noise I hear when a vehicle lugs down the sound of pre-ignition),
> > > or is there ever another cause of this particular noise? I'm still
> > > horrible at diagnosing particular noises coming from my engine, so I'm
> > > trying to learn. I always thought that noise of lugging down (which
> > > sounds very similar, whether I'm driving a jeep, a celica, or a
> > > sentra) was mostly harmless, though not something one wants to make
> > > happen.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice and help.
> > >
> > > "SteveG" <sg@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ahjsb.600$MP.4339@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> > > > What model/year Jeep do you have?
> > > >
> > > > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:47b769ae.0311110930.6fa8f559@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > > > > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> > > > >
> > > > > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > > > > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > > > > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > > > > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > > > > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > > > > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > > > > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > > > > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > > > > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > > > > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > > > > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > /Bob

Mike Romain

It goes down the throttle body or carb in a steady trickle. The engine
will bog, so you need to have your hand on the throttle to keep it from
stalling.

Likely 60 to 100 seconds for a pint.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok. I'm going to try the water thing. Before I do, though, I want to
> make sure I can somehow quantify your instructions.
>
> How slowly should I pour in the water? I don't want to damage the
> engine by accidentally going to fast, and I don't want to go so slow
> that it doesn't do any good. Should I remove the stock air intake
> tubing, to pour in the water, or is there another trick?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FB25DE0.432CB282@sympatico.ca>...
> > Both the ATF and/or the water go slowly down the intake.
> >
> > I have been told by lots of folks that water is as effective as ATF at
> > burning or shocking the carbon off.
> >
> > A good high rpm run also is good at cleaning the combustion chamber.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > Model/Year: 1997 TJ w/4.0 I-6 and 5spd.
> > >
> > > Like I said before, I am not shifting too early or driving in too high
> > > a gear to cause the lugging in that way. I'm not sure if my clutch/gas
> > > modulation timing is screwed up; I've always thought I shifted ok, and
> > > have driven a standard for a good 5 or 6 years (5 of those years
> > > part-time...shared vehicle, then full time this last year since buying
> > > my jeep).
> > >
> > > Mike, you mentioned putting a pint of ATF or water in. You said to
> > > trickle the water down the air intake. What about the ATF option? Do I
> > > put it down the air intake also, or do I add it to the gas tank?
> > >
> > > Is this "lugging" noise always associated with pre-ignition, (i.e. is
> > > the noise I hear when a vehicle lugs down the sound of pre-ignition),
> > > or is there ever another cause of this particular noise? I'm still
> > > horrible at diagnosing particular noises coming from my engine, so I'm
> > > trying to learn. I always thought that noise of lugging down (which
> > > sounds very similar, whether I'm driving a jeep, a celica, or a
> > > sentra) was mostly harmless, though not something one wants to make
> > > happen.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice and help.
> > >
> > > "SteveG" <sg@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ahjsb.600$MP.4339@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
> > > > What model/year Jeep do you have?
> > > >
> > > > "Bob" <magicclaw@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:47b769ae.0311110930.6fa8f559@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > > > > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> > > > >
> > > > > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > > > > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > > > > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > > > > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > > > > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > > > > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > > > > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > > > > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > > > > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > > > > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > > > > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > /Bob

Bob

Year: 1997
Model: Wrangler (TJ)
Tranny: AX15? (I think that's the 5-speed manual tranny found on the
97 TJ...)

I was wondering if it could have anything to do with the throwout
bearing. I had read something about that making noise somewhere, too.
I hope its none of these bearings you're talking about, though. They
don't sound easy to replace! :(

Do you actually know the sound I'm talking about? It's not a very
difficult sound to reproduce on any standard transmission vehicle by
simply hitting the gas when going to slow for the present gear... I'm
just asking because people have so far seemed certain it is "knocking"
sound I'm hearing, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I don't
have first-hand experience hearing what true engine "knocking" sounds
like, though, so I don't have a very good basis for comparison...


Roy <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message news:<uQxsb.646$WF2.43264@news.uswest.net>...
> Could be loose cat converter internals. Could be pinging. Could
> be loose input shaft bearing. Could be throwout bearing. Etc.
> Year/model/tranny?
>
> Bob wrote:
> > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> >
> > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> >
> > Thanks
> > /Bob

Bob

Year: 1997
Model: Wrangler (TJ)
Tranny: AX15? (I think that's the 5-speed manual tranny found on the
97 TJ...)

I was wondering if it could have anything to do with the throwout
bearing. I had read something about that making noise somewhere, too.
I hope its none of these bearings you're talking about, though. They
don't sound easy to replace! :(

Do you actually know the sound I'm talking about? It's not a very
difficult sound to reproduce on any standard transmission vehicle by
simply hitting the gas when going to slow for the present gear... I'm
just asking because people have so far seemed certain it is "knocking"
sound I'm hearing, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I don't
have first-hand experience hearing what true engine "knocking" sounds
like, though, so I don't have a very good basis for comparison...


Roy <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message news:<uQxsb.646$WF2.43264@news.uswest.net>...
> Could be loose cat converter internals. Could be pinging. Could
> be loose input shaft bearing. Could be throwout bearing. Etc.
> Year/model/tranny?
>
> Bob wrote:
> > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> >
> > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> >
> > Thanks
> > /Bob

Bob

Year: 1997
Model: Wrangler (TJ)
Tranny: AX15? (I think that's the 5-speed manual tranny found on the
97 TJ...)

I was wondering if it could have anything to do with the throwout
bearing. I had read something about that making noise somewhere, too.
I hope its none of these bearings you're talking about, though. They
don't sound easy to replace! :(

Do you actually know the sound I'm talking about? It's not a very
difficult sound to reproduce on any standard transmission vehicle by
simply hitting the gas when going to slow for the present gear... I'm
just asking because people have so far seemed certain it is "knocking"
sound I'm hearing, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I don't
have first-hand experience hearing what true engine "knocking" sounds
like, though, so I don't have a very good basis for comparison...


Roy <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message news:<uQxsb.646$WF2.43264@news.uswest.net>...
> Could be loose cat converter internals. Could be pinging. Could
> be loose input shaft bearing. Could be throwout bearing. Etc.
> Year/model/tranny?
>
> Bob wrote:
> > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> >
> > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> >
> > Thanks
> > /Bob

Mike Romain

The 'knocking' noise is more like a rattle....

That is the pistons flopping around.

A carbon buildup will cause that.

To find out, run a tank of high test through it. If the noise goes
away, it is carbon making the compression too high so it ignites the gas
from compression before the spark hits it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Bob wrote:
>
> Year: 1997
> Model: Wrangler (TJ)
> Tranny: AX15? (I think that's the 5-speed manual tranny found on the
> 97 TJ...)
>
> I was wondering if it could have anything to do with the throwout
> bearing. I had read something about that making noise somewhere, too.
> I hope its none of these bearings you're talking about, though. They
> don't sound easy to replace! :(
>
> Do you actually know the sound I'm talking about? It's not a very
> difficult sound to reproduce on any standard transmission vehicle by
> simply hitting the gas when going to slow for the present gear... I'm
> just asking because people have so far seemed certain it is "knocking"
> sound I'm hearing, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I don't
> have first-hand experience hearing what true engine "knocking" sounds
> like, though, so I don't have a very good basis for comparison...
>
> Roy <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message news:<uQxsb.646$WF2.43264@news.uswest.net>...
> > Could be loose cat converter internals. Could be pinging. Could
> > be loose input shaft bearing. Could be throwout bearing. Etc.
> > Year/model/tranny?
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> > >
> > > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > /Bob

Mike Romain

The 'knocking' noise is more like a rattle....

That is the pistons flopping around.

A carbon buildup will cause that.

To find out, run a tank of high test through it. If the noise goes
away, it is carbon making the compression too high so it ignites the gas
from compression before the spark hits it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Bob wrote:
>
> Year: 1997
> Model: Wrangler (TJ)
> Tranny: AX15? (I think that's the 5-speed manual tranny found on the
> 97 TJ...)
>
> I was wondering if it could have anything to do with the throwout
> bearing. I had read something about that making noise somewhere, too.
> I hope its none of these bearings you're talking about, though. They
> don't sound easy to replace! :(
>
> Do you actually know the sound I'm talking about? It's not a very
> difficult sound to reproduce on any standard transmission vehicle by
> simply hitting the gas when going to slow for the present gear... I'm
> just asking because people have so far seemed certain it is "knocking"
> sound I'm hearing, but it just doesn't seem like that to me. I don't
> have first-hand experience hearing what true engine "knocking" sounds
> like, though, so I don't have a very good basis for comparison...
>
> Roy <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote in message news:<uQxsb.646$WF2.43264@news.uswest.net>...
> > Could be loose cat converter internals. Could be pinging. Could
> > be loose input shaft bearing. Could be throwout bearing. Etc.
> > Year/model/tranny?
> >
> > Bob wrote:
> > > I have a question for you more auto-mechanic inclined than me (which
> > > is probably most everyone who posts here often).
> > >
> > > You know that noise the engine makes when it lugs down? Kind of a
> > > clicking/rattling noise, especially prevalent when you shift into the
> > > next gear too early, right when you release the clutch and put
> > > pressure on the gas again? What specific part is making this noise.
> > > Does anyone know? I have been hearing it more lately, when I'm just
> > > driving normally, and there is no reason for the engine to be lugging
> > > down (I'm not shifting too early, etc.), and I'm wondering if
> > > something in my tranny or clutch is about to go bad that would cause
> > > this noise to occur more often. I still only hear it pretty close to
> > > when I first get back on the gas after changing gears. I'd like to
> > > catch any potential problem before it strands me.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > /Bob