LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
07-18-2005, 08:06 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
Bill, you crack me up. Where in my post did I say that the horsepower
ratings from back in the 50s and 60s were higher than actual? All I said was
that comparing the ratings of the engines in the 50 and 60s is a different
rating system than what they use today. In fact, most of the automakers were
boasting numbers less than the actual horsepower of the engines back then,
both for insurance reasons and because of the class system for the Stock and
Super Stock drag racing classes. The 426 Hemi, Boss 429 and the W30 Olds 455
were perfect examples of this.
And of course, you had to pull something totally out of the blue about the
Ford side oiler. I can see how anyone would have read that in to what I
said. Sheesh.
Chris
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
net
> > HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite
a
> > difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
1972.
> > Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
> > engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
> > converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
> > conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block
Chevy
> > block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and
then
> > convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
several
> > small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
> > having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
> >
> > Chris
ratings from back in the 50s and 60s were higher than actual? All I said was
that comparing the ratings of the engines in the 50 and 60s is a different
rating system than what they use today. In fact, most of the automakers were
boasting numbers less than the actual horsepower of the engines back then,
both for insurance reasons and because of the class system for the Stock and
Super Stock drag racing classes. The 426 Hemi, Boss 429 and the W30 Olds 455
were perfect examples of this.
And of course, you had to pull something totally out of the blue about the
Ford side oiler. I can see how anyone would have read that in to what I
said. Sheesh.
Chris
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
> >
> > Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
net
> > HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite
a
> > difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
1972.
> > Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
> > engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
> > converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
> > conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block
Chevy
> > block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and
then
> > convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
several
> > small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
> > having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
> >
> > Chris
07-18-2005, 11:24 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
A few of the limited production engines did have the horsepower, but
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
07-18-2005, 11:24 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
A few of the limited production engines did have the horsepower, but
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
07-18-2005, 11:24 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
A few of the limited production engines did have the horsepower, but
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
07-18-2005, 11:24 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
A few of the limited production engines did have the horsepower, but
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
they were job-shop-built, wild cam, high compression engines that
needed very high octane fuel and in most cases were not capable of 29"
Hg manifold pressure operation for more than 2 to 10 hours (even if oil
and coolant temps were magically controlled) before extremely loud
noises occurred and smoke, flames and oil went everywhere.
The much storied 426 Hemi ("Race Hemi", "late Hemi", whatever...) was
such an engine. It excelled at NASCAR in its day, thereafter in nitro
burning dragsters with 100% power TBO of something like seven seconds.
But you know why they were never used in marine applications? The
valvetrain was good for a hundred hours, maybe, even at the 350-400 hp
mark, and at 500 hp the lower end had maybe fifteen good hours.
Monteverdi built a sports car called a Hai, with the Hemi, and few were
built-they _could not_ make the Hemi live on the Autobahn for more than
maybe ten thousand miles. Jensen would have nothing whatever to do with
the Hemi.
The "side oiler" Ford 427 is another deal. External oil pipes went out
with the OX-5 and Isadora Duncan era Bugattis-it was a kluge, a patch
to save Ford the trouble of making new patterns and core boxes to do it
right.
There were Americans who "did it right" and who the Europeans learned
from-names like MIller, Goossen, Meyer-Drake, Rentschler, Allison come
to mind-but they had nothing to do with mass production poop out of
Detroit. Let's call a spade a spade here.
07-19-2005, 12:15 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
Bill,
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
07-19-2005, 12:15 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
Bill,
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
07-19-2005, 12:15 AM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
Bill,
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
07-19-2005, 12:15 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
Bill,
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
The manufacturers lie about horsepower and torque ratings now just like
they did 'back in the day' as my daughters say, with the difference being
they used to claim significantly less power than the engines were actually
producing.
For example somewhere around 1970 one of the car magazines went around to
the Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge dealers and took standard 'demonstrators'
for a test ride to their local speed shop.
The Hemi engines rated at 425 hp by Chrysler all put out 500+ horsepower on
the dynos and the engines had not even been broken in.
Those weren't HP versions, they were the engines that our parents (the
current generations grand and great grand parents) had in their Imperials
and Furies, and Coronets...
And before we forget you could go to your local dealer and buy a NHRA
"Super Stock" Dodge or W30 Oldsmobile
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> c wrote:
>>
>> Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms of
>> net
>> HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite a
>> difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
>> 1972.
>> Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block Chevy
>> block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and then
>> convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
>> several
>> small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>>
>> Chris
07-19-2005, 12:19 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: LT1 Wrangler For Sale in Arizona (repost)
I should have read further in the thread. yes, around '72 or '73 they
changes the ratings from power at the flywheel to power at the axle. The
difference was about -20% for loss. There was additional loss because the
manufacturers chose to go the cheapest route to meet emissions rather than
the best way. That gave us 2 decades of cars that were underpowered and
could not be made to run correctly.
"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:cuXCe.16758$uo6.1460@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bill, you crack me up. Where in my post did I say that the horsepower
> ratings from back in the 50s and 60s were higher than actual? All I said
> was
> that comparing the ratings of the engines in the 50 and 60s is a different
> rating system than what they use today. In fact, most of the automakers
> were
> boasting numbers less than the actual horsepower of the engines back then,
> both for insurance reasons and because of the class system for the Stock
> and
> Super Stock drag racing classes. The 426 Hemi, Boss 429 and the W30 Olds
> 455
> were perfect examples of this.
>
> And of course, you had to pull something totally out of the blue about the
> Ford side oiler. I can see how anyone would have read that in to what I
> said. Sheesh.
>
> Chris
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
>> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
>> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
>> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> c wrote:
>> >
>> > Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms
>> > of
> net
>> > HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite
> a
>> > difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
> 1972.
>> > Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> > engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> > converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> > conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block
> Chevy
>> > block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and
> then
>> > convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
> several
>> > small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> > having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>> >
>> > Chris
>
>
changes the ratings from power at the flywheel to power at the axle. The
difference was about -20% for loss. There was additional loss because the
manufacturers chose to go the cheapest route to meet emissions rather than
the best way. That gave us 2 decades of cars that were underpowered and
could not be made to run correctly.
"c" <c@me.org> wrote in message
news:cuXCe.16758$uo6.1460@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Bill, you crack me up. Where in my post did I say that the horsepower
> ratings from back in the 50s and 60s were higher than actual? All I said
> was
> that comparing the ratings of the engines in the 50 and 60s is a different
> rating system than what they use today. In fact, most of the automakers
> were
> boasting numbers less than the actual horsepower of the engines back then,
> both for insurance reasons and because of the class system for the Stock
> and
> Super Stock drag racing classes. The 426 Hemi, Boss 429 and the W30 Olds
> 455
> were perfect examples of this.
>
> And of course, you had to pull something totally out of the blue about the
> Ford side oiler. I can see how anyone would have read that in to what I
> said. Sheesh.
>
> Chris
>
> "L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:42DC3A77.6FB86BF7@***.net...
>> For those whom believe we really didn't have the horsepower, back in
>> the old days: http://www.cobranet.com/roadtest.htm You probably think
>> there was no reason for a side oiler, too.
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> c wrote:
>> >
>> > Just remember that for quite a while engines have been rated in terms
>> > of
> net
>> > HP, not flywheel like they were back in the 50s and 60s. There is quite
> a
>> > difference in the ratings. I believe they changed the ratings around
> 1972.
>> > Also any street engine is fine with a 2 bolt block. there are a lot of
>> > engines out there that never had 4 bolt caps, and some can't even be
>> > converted, yet they seem to live under some very severe high horsepower
>> > conditions. It is also a known fact that the best stock small block
> Chevy
>> > block to use for racing is one that originally had 2 bolt mains, and
> then
>> > convert it to 4 bolt mains with the splayed outer bolts. I've seen
> several
>> > small and big block Chevy engines making some serious power, and still
>> > having the 2 bolt main caps without a problem.
>> >
>> > Chris
>
>