j.lef

..
>
> It 'isn't' a car.
>
> Jeeps have the sweetest, most well behaved 4x4 of any off road truck I
> have ever seen or driven in and I have been bush running since the 70's.
>
> Jeeps also let you know 'real' fast if you are going to fast for
> conditions, they get twitchy. Well, when a Jeep gets twitchy, check the
> stopping distance, it won't easily let you outdrive the stopping power,
> but it still can...
>
Thanks to all that have responded to me on group and
directly. Its difficult sometimes making a decision, especially on something
that cost 20,000 plus dollars, and something that you have to depend on day
in and day out. I am in law enforcement and in the military, and thus need
to get to work, no matter the conditions and need to stow gear and buddies
sometimes, so dependability, space, and rugeddness in that order is whats
important to me. I know the toyota quality having had two of them, and
loving them. I also love my 13 year old dodge caravan with close to 200,00
on the odometer.
I went with my spouse today, to sit in the jeep on the
showroom floor again. She is a new driver(we are in our forties), and she
will be driving vehicle occasionaly so it had to suit her also. (Shes the
commanding officer at home, LOL ) She really likes both the rav4 and the
toyota.I am a bigger guy and find the rav4 a bit small on the "belly room
factor" LOL Darn, I wish I had the cash to buy one of each. Still open
to more comments and opinions.
This car will almost never be taken off road. 98 percent of
time will be on paved roads.


Thanks

twaldron

From someone who loves Jeeps (owned 7 since 1987) and a Toyota 4Runner
(1989.....if those were my only two options, and with the usage you
describe, I'd get the Rav 4.


> Thanks to all that have responded to me on group and
> directly. Its difficult sometimes making a decision, especially on something
> that cost 20,000 plus dollars, and something that you have to depend on day
> in and day out. I am in law enforcement and in the military, and thus need
> to get to work, no matter the conditions and need to stow gear and buddies
> sometimes, so dependability, space, and rugeddness in that order is whats
> important to me. I know the toyota quality having had two of them, and
> loving them. I also love my 13 year old dodge caravan with close to 200,00
> on the odometer.
> I went with my spouse today, to sit in the jeep on the
> showroom floor again. She is a new driver(we are in our forties), and she
> will be driving vehicle occasionaly so it had to suit her also. (Shes the
> commanding officer at home, LOL ) She really likes both the rav4 and the
> toyota.I am a bigger guy and find the rav4 a bit small on the "belly room
> factor" LOL Darn, I wish I had the cash to buy one of each. Still open
> to more comments and opinions.
> This car will almost never be taken off road. 98 percent of
> time will be on paved roads.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

From someone who loves Jeeps (owned 7 since 1987) and a Toyota 4Runner
(1989.....if those were my only two options, and with the usage you
describe, I'd get the Rav 4.


> Thanks to all that have responded to me on group and
> directly. Its difficult sometimes making a decision, especially on something
> that cost 20,000 plus dollars, and something that you have to depend on day
> in and day out. I am in law enforcement and in the military, and thus need
> to get to work, no matter the conditions and need to stow gear and buddies
> sometimes, so dependability, space, and rugeddness in that order is whats
> important to me. I know the toyota quality having had two of them, and
> loving them. I also love my 13 year old dodge caravan with close to 200,00
> on the odometer.
> I went with my spouse today, to sit in the jeep on the
> showroom floor again. She is a new driver(we are in our forties), and she
> will be driving vehicle occasionaly so it had to suit her also. (Shes the
> commanding officer at home, LOL ) She really likes both the rav4 and the
> toyota.I am a bigger guy and find the rav4 a bit small on the "belly room
> factor" LOL Darn, I wish I had the cash to buy one of each. Still open
> to more comments and opinions.
> This car will almost never be taken off road. 98 percent of
> time will be on paved roads.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

From someone who loves Jeeps (owned 7 since 1987) and a Toyota 4Runner
(1989.....if those were my only two options, and with the usage you
describe, I'd get the Rav 4.


> Thanks to all that have responded to me on group and
> directly. Its difficult sometimes making a decision, especially on something
> that cost 20,000 plus dollars, and something that you have to depend on day
> in and day out. I am in law enforcement and in the military, and thus need
> to get to work, no matter the conditions and need to stow gear and buddies
> sometimes, so dependability, space, and rugeddness in that order is whats
> important to me. I know the toyota quality having had two of them, and
> loving them. I also love my 13 year old dodge caravan with close to 200,00
> on the odometer.
> I went with my spouse today, to sit in the jeep on the
> showroom floor again. She is a new driver(we are in our forties), and she
> will be driving vehicle occasionaly so it had to suit her also. (Shes the
> commanding officer at home, LOL ) She really likes both the rav4 and the
> toyota.I am a bigger guy and find the rav4 a bit small on the "belly room
> factor" LOL Darn, I wish I had the cash to buy one of each. Still open
> to more comments and opinions.
> This car will almost never be taken off road. 98 percent of
> time will be on paved roads.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

twaldron

From someone who loves Jeeps (owned 7 since 1987) and a Toyota 4Runner
(1989.....if those were my only two options, and with the usage you
describe, I'd get the Rav 4.


> Thanks to all that have responded to me on group and
> directly. Its difficult sometimes making a decision, especially on something
> that cost 20,000 plus dollars, and something that you have to depend on day
> in and day out. I am in law enforcement and in the military, and thus need
> to get to work, no matter the conditions and need to stow gear and buddies
> sometimes, so dependability, space, and rugeddness in that order is whats
> important to me. I know the toyota quality having had two of them, and
> loving them. I also love my 13 year old dodge caravan with close to 200,00
> on the odometer.
> I went with my spouse today, to sit in the jeep on the
> showroom floor again. She is a new driver(we are in our forties), and she
> will be driving vehicle occasionaly so it had to suit her also. (Shes the
> commanding officer at home, LOL ) She really likes both the rav4 and the
> toyota.I am a bigger guy and find the rav4 a bit small on the "belly room
> factor" LOL Darn, I wish I had the cash to buy one of each. Still open
> to more comments and opinions.
> This car will almost never be taken off road. 98 percent of
> time will be on paved roads.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>

--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw

03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940

Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.

(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________

attnews

I'm sure many are tired of hearing me cutting Chrysler, and praising
AMC...it's just that I have some strong feelings. The Jeep concept was
purely an American development. The little Jeep was given much credit for
helping to win WW II. Jeep went thru several owners, but kept its original
basic intent and concept intact. Kaiser did well by Jeep. AMC took Jeep
many steps forward, but without screwing up and burying the original Jeep
intent. Along comes a foreign manufactuer, and according to chrysler, is
intent on making the Jeep more car-like. When Chrysler redesigned AMC's
grand cherokee, chrysler said they were making the gas tank smaller and
reducing the departure angle because women said they needed more space in
back for groceries. And IFS because they wanted to make the liberty more
car-like. Duh. There are countless examples. My brand-new, frameless,
all-AMC '87 Comanche is a much better vehicle than my AMC- designed,
chrysler-built '95 JGC, which had over $5,500 in maintenance by the time it
had 9000 miles. I could go on, but......(and the TJ has AMC front
suspension.) (there I go again...)
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:410E57BE.7835ABAC@sympatico.ca...
> It has the Jeep label, same as the TJ.
>
> Time to get used to it too, attnews.
> ;-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> attnews wrote:
> >
> > keep in mind that the liberty is not really a Jeep, not in anyway,
except
> > for the name that Krysler stuck on it. might investigate a good used
> > cherokee, which was done by a completely different sent of engineering
(and
> > styling) parameters, by a different manufacturer. . The liberty is
> > tip-prone by krysler's own admission, due to faulty (ignorant?) design
> > parameters. IF you can stand the styling (?) gawkiness and weird
proportions
> > and irrelevent dips and bulges and odd angles, then the liberty just
might
> > be for you. but please don't refer to it as Jeep. It is not.
> > "j.lef" <j.lef@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:2xcPc.4246$uk3.2178@trndny06...
> > > Sorry if this is wrong newsgroup for posting this
> > > message. I need a fairly small vehicle, that has got to get me to
work
> > > everyday without fail no matter the weather. I live in the northeast,
but
> > > not too far north(one of the mid atlantic states). We can get heavy
snow,
> > > sleet and rain.
> > > I have looked at the rav 4 , and the jeep liberty. I
am
> > > looking at the automatic trannie only. I am leaning towards the
liberty
> > > sport because of the greater room behind the front seats, for storing
> > gear.
> > > I have test driven them both, but only in city
driving,
> > > couldnt get the dealership to get to a highway with them.(but that is
> > > another story)
> > >
> > > 1) The rav four seemed excellent in fit and finish. The engine
seemed
> > > smooth and the car felt great, except its a little cramped for space.
> > >
> > > 2) The jeep engine felt sound, but not as refined. The car also felt
to
> > not
> > > handle as well .
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > > From your experiences, what has the dependibility of newer jeep
> > liberty
> > > 4wd vehicles have been? I cant afford to have a vehicle that is
> > constantly
> > > in the shop. If I dont get to work on time, It is serious.
> > >
> > > Is the highway driving that bad? From reading reviews they
talk
> > > about the stiff drive, because the jeep is also a serious off roader,
and
> > > thus comprimised. I am willing to compromise a bit, because when it
snows
> > > and sleets at three in the mourning, I have no choice but to be in the
> > > vehicle driving to or from work. I do like the jeeps rear room.
> > >
> > > So any actual experiences would be appreciated. One
other
> > > reason is that the wife actually likes the way the jeep fits her body.
She
> > > is short, and she also likes the visibility on the jeep.
> > >
> > > This is a tough decision. I have a parking
> > situation
> > > at work, thus I cant bring my larger suv to work.
> > > Looked at the honda crv, and the pedals are too far away for wife.
> > >
> > > So please help me
out..LOL
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >

attnews

I'm sure many are tired of hearing me cutting Chrysler, and praising
AMC...it's just that I have some strong feelings. The Jeep concept was
purely an American development. The little Jeep was given much credit for
helping to win WW II. Jeep went thru several owners, but kept its original
basic intent and concept intact. Kaiser did well by Jeep. AMC took Jeep
many steps forward, but without screwing up and burying the original Jeep
intent. Along comes a foreign manufactuer, and according to chrysler, is
intent on making the Jeep more car-like. When Chrysler redesigned AMC's
grand cherokee, chrysler said they were making the gas tank smaller and
reducing the departure angle because women said they needed more space in
back for groceries. And IFS because they wanted to make the liberty more
car-like. Duh. There are countless examples. My brand-new, frameless,
all-AMC '87 Comanche is a much better vehicle than my AMC- designed,
chrysler-built '95 JGC, which had over $5,500 in maintenance by the time it
had 9000 miles. I could go on, but......(and the TJ has AMC front
suspension.) (there I go again...)
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:410E57BE.7835ABAC@sympatico.ca...
> It has the Jeep label, same as the TJ.
>
> Time to get used to it too, attnews.
> ;-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> attnews wrote:
> >
> > keep in mind that the liberty is not really a Jeep, not in anyway,
except
> > for the name that Krysler stuck on it. might investigate a good used
> > cherokee, which was done by a completely different sent of engineering
(and
> > styling) parameters, by a different manufacturer. . The liberty is
> > tip-prone by krysler's own admission, due to faulty (ignorant?) design
> > parameters. IF you can stand the styling (?) gawkiness and weird
proportions
> > and irrelevent dips and bulges and odd angles, then the liberty just
might
> > be for you. but please don't refer to it as Jeep. It is not.
> > "j.lef" <j.lef@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:2xcPc.4246$uk3.2178@trndny06...
> > > Sorry if this is wrong newsgroup for posting this
> > > message. I need a fairly small vehicle, that has got to get me to
work
> > > everyday without fail no matter the weather. I live in the northeast,
but
> > > not too far north(one of the mid atlantic states). We can get heavy
snow,
> > > sleet and rain.
> > > I have looked at the rav 4 , and the jeep liberty. I
am
> > > looking at the automatic trannie only. I am leaning towards the
liberty
> > > sport because of the greater room behind the front seats, for storing
> > gear.
> > > I have test driven them both, but only in city
driving,
> > > couldnt get the dealership to get to a highway with them.(but that is
> > > another story)
> > >
> > > 1) The rav four seemed excellent in fit and finish. The engine
seemed
> > > smooth and the car felt great, except its a little cramped for space.
> > >
> > > 2) The jeep engine felt sound, but not as refined. The car also felt
to
> > not
> > > handle as well .
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > > From your experiences, what has the dependibility of newer jeep
> > liberty
> > > 4wd vehicles have been? I cant afford to have a vehicle that is
> > constantly
> > > in the shop. If I dont get to work on time, It is serious.
> > >
> > > Is the highway driving that bad? From reading reviews they
talk
> > > about the stiff drive, because the jeep is also a serious off roader,
and
> > > thus comprimised. I am willing to compromise a bit, because when it
snows
> > > and sleets at three in the mourning, I have no choice but to be in the
> > > vehicle driving to or from work. I do like the jeeps rear room.
> > >
> > > So any actual experiences would be appreciated. One
other
> > > reason is that the wife actually likes the way the jeep fits her body.
She
> > > is short, and she also likes the visibility on the jeep.
> > >
> > > This is a tough decision. I have a parking
> > situation
> > > at work, thus I cant bring my larger suv to work.
> > > Looked at the honda crv, and the pedals are too far away for wife.
> > >
> > > So please help me
out..LOL
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >

attnews

I'm sure many are tired of hearing me cutting Chrysler, and praising
AMC...it's just that I have some strong feelings. The Jeep concept was
purely an American development. The little Jeep was given much credit for
helping to win WW II. Jeep went thru several owners, but kept its original
basic intent and concept intact. Kaiser did well by Jeep. AMC took Jeep
many steps forward, but without screwing up and burying the original Jeep
intent. Along comes a foreign manufactuer, and according to chrysler, is
intent on making the Jeep more car-like. When Chrysler redesigned AMC's
grand cherokee, chrysler said they were making the gas tank smaller and
reducing the departure angle because women said they needed more space in
back for groceries. And IFS because they wanted to make the liberty more
car-like. Duh. There are countless examples. My brand-new, frameless,
all-AMC '87 Comanche is a much better vehicle than my AMC- designed,
chrysler-built '95 JGC, which had over $5,500 in maintenance by the time it
had 9000 miles. I could go on, but......(and the TJ has AMC front
suspension.) (there I go again...)
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:410E57BE.7835ABAC@sympatico.ca...
> It has the Jeep label, same as the TJ.
>
> Time to get used to it too, attnews.
> ;-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> attnews wrote:
> >
> > keep in mind that the liberty is not really a Jeep, not in anyway,
except
> > for the name that Krysler stuck on it. might investigate a good used
> > cherokee, which was done by a completely different sent of engineering
(and
> > styling) parameters, by a different manufacturer. . The liberty is
> > tip-prone by krysler's own admission, due to faulty (ignorant?) design
> > parameters. IF you can stand the styling (?) gawkiness and weird
proportions
> > and irrelevent dips and bulges and odd angles, then the liberty just
might
> > be for you. but please don't refer to it as Jeep. It is not.
> > "j.lef" <j.lef@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:2xcPc.4246$uk3.2178@trndny06...
> > > Sorry if this is wrong newsgroup for posting this
> > > message. I need a fairly small vehicle, that has got to get me to
work
> > > everyday without fail no matter the weather. I live in the northeast,
but
> > > not too far north(one of the mid atlantic states). We can get heavy
snow,
> > > sleet and rain.
> > > I have looked at the rav 4 , and the jeep liberty. I
am
> > > looking at the automatic trannie only. I am leaning towards the
liberty
> > > sport because of the greater room behind the front seats, for storing
> > gear.
> > > I have test driven them both, but only in city
driving,
> > > couldnt get the dealership to get to a highway with them.(but that is
> > > another story)
> > >
> > > 1) The rav four seemed excellent in fit and finish. The engine
seemed
> > > smooth and the car felt great, except its a little cramped for space.
> > >
> > > 2) The jeep engine felt sound, but not as refined. The car also felt
to
> > not
> > > handle as well .
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > > From your experiences, what has the dependibility of newer jeep
> > liberty
> > > 4wd vehicles have been? I cant afford to have a vehicle that is
> > constantly
> > > in the shop. If I dont get to work on time, It is serious.
> > >
> > > Is the highway driving that bad? From reading reviews they
talk
> > > about the stiff drive, because the jeep is also a serious off roader,
and
> > > thus comprimised. I am willing to compromise a bit, because when it
snows
> > > and sleets at three in the mourning, I have no choice but to be in the
> > > vehicle driving to or from work. I do like the jeeps rear room.
> > >
> > > So any actual experiences would be appreciated. One
other
> > > reason is that the wife actually likes the way the jeep fits her body.
She
> > > is short, and she also likes the visibility on the jeep.
> > >
> > > This is a tough decision. I have a parking
> > situation
> > > at work, thus I cant bring my larger suv to work.
> > > Looked at the honda crv, and the pedals are too far away for wife.
> > >
> > > So please help me
out..LOL
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >

attnews

I'm sure many are tired of hearing me cutting Chrysler, and praising
AMC...it's just that I have some strong feelings. The Jeep concept was
purely an American development. The little Jeep was given much credit for
helping to win WW II. Jeep went thru several owners, but kept its original
basic intent and concept intact. Kaiser did well by Jeep. AMC took Jeep
many steps forward, but without screwing up and burying the original Jeep
intent. Along comes a foreign manufactuer, and according to chrysler, is
intent on making the Jeep more car-like. When Chrysler redesigned AMC's
grand cherokee, chrysler said they were making the gas tank smaller and
reducing the departure angle because women said they needed more space in
back for groceries. And IFS because they wanted to make the liberty more
car-like. Duh. There are countless examples. My brand-new, frameless,
all-AMC '87 Comanche is a much better vehicle than my AMC- designed,
chrysler-built '95 JGC, which had over $5,500 in maintenance by the time it
had 9000 miles. I could go on, but......(and the TJ has AMC front
suspension.) (there I go again...)
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:410E57BE.7835ABAC@sympatico.ca...
> It has the Jeep label, same as the TJ.
>
> Time to get used to it too, attnews.
> ;-)
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> attnews wrote:
> >
> > keep in mind that the liberty is not really a Jeep, not in anyway,
except
> > for the name that Krysler stuck on it. might investigate a good used
> > cherokee, which was done by a completely different sent of engineering
(and
> > styling) parameters, by a different manufacturer. . The liberty is
> > tip-prone by krysler's own admission, due to faulty (ignorant?) design
> > parameters. IF you can stand the styling (?) gawkiness and weird
proportions
> > and irrelevent dips and bulges and odd angles, then the liberty just
might
> > be for you. but please don't refer to it as Jeep. It is not.
> > "j.lef" <j.lef@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:2xcPc.4246$uk3.2178@trndny06...
> > > Sorry if this is wrong newsgroup for posting this
> > > message. I need a fairly small vehicle, that has got to get me to
work
> > > everyday without fail no matter the weather. I live in the northeast,
but
> > > not too far north(one of the mid atlantic states). We can get heavy
snow,
> > > sleet and rain.
> > > I have looked at the rav 4 , and the jeep liberty. I
am
> > > looking at the automatic trannie only. I am leaning towards the
liberty
> > > sport because of the greater room behind the front seats, for storing
> > gear.
> > > I have test driven them both, but only in city
driving,
> > > couldnt get the dealership to get to a highway with them.(but that is
> > > another story)
> > >
> > > 1) The rav four seemed excellent in fit and finish. The engine
seemed
> > > smooth and the car felt great, except its a little cramped for space.
> > >
> > > 2) The jeep engine felt sound, but not as refined. The car also felt
to
> > not
> > > handle as well .
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > > From your experiences, what has the dependibility of newer jeep
> > liberty
> > > 4wd vehicles have been? I cant afford to have a vehicle that is
> > constantly
> > > in the shop. If I dont get to work on time, It is serious.
> > >
> > > Is the highway driving that bad? From reading reviews they
talk
> > > about the stiff drive, because the jeep is also a serious off roader,
and
> > > thus comprimised. I am willing to compromise a bit, because when it
snows
> > > and sleets at three in the mourning, I have no choice but to be in the
> > > vehicle driving to or from work. I do like the jeeps rear room.
> > >
> > > So any actual experiences would be appreciated. One
other
> > > reason is that the wife actually likes the way the jeep fits her body.
She
> > > is short, and she also likes the visibility on the jeep.
> > >
> > > This is a tough decision. I have a parking
> > situation
> > > at work, thus I cant bring my larger suv to work.
> > > Looked at the honda crv, and the pedals are too far away for wife.
> > >
> > > So please help me
out..LOL
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > >

Jerry

> "one of the mid atlantic states" Another ball-less troll.

That's right only questions billy deems relevant should be in this
news group.

That's it from now on only questions about billys jeep because it's
the only real one out there, all others are just fakes or wanna be's.