David Coleman

"bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote in message
news:w9SdnWA06veOI-janZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Frank" <frankdross@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:zMOdnR7f4KdYEejanZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>> NICE
>>
>
> UGLY!
>
>

I agree. Just what the hell is that thing?? And all the yellow trim on it
makes it look like a Tonka toy. I wouldn't want all that stuff on my truck.

David Coleman

"Ed H." <edo.hart@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:7czdj.451$jX4.264@trnddc07...
> The size of a Rav 4, and able to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Although
> it's one of the ugliest cars I've seen, both inside and out, I bet it
> appeals to a certain segment. I wonder how long it would take the camper
> manufactures to design a topper for it and how much uglier that would make
> it.
>

I don't think it can get much uglier than it is....

Topp@Work

"KC" <kevinceddy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:646c58ca-025a-441f-8ef9-6d641447bd11@z26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 28, 5:40 pm, Nomen Nescio <***...@dizum.com> wrote:


>I see a lot of people think its ugly, but personally, I think it looks
>pretty cool.
>It'd be perfect for my needs. I drive a '96 T100 single cab now, but
>I can't fit my whole family in it. I love that its green, too. I
>think it will sell.

Green is relative....
The batteries for these Hybrids are made in canada, where for 1000 yards
around the plant nothing
grows due to the chemicals that make up the batteries....The amount of Fuel
used to ship the chemicals and
raw materials for the batteries to canada, and then the fuel used to ship
the comleted units to Japan outweight your 2% fuel savings
over the life of the vehicle....

J. Clarke

Topp@Work wrote:
> "KC" <kevinceddy@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:646c58ca-025a-441f-8ef9-6d641447bd11@z26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 28, 5:40 pm, Nomen Nescio <***...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I see a lot of people think its ugly, but personally, I think it
>> looks pretty cool.
>> It'd be perfect for my needs. I drive a '96 T100 single cab now,
>> but
>> I can't fit my whole family in it. I love that its green, too. I
>> think it will sell.
>
> Green is relative....
> The batteries for these Hybrids are made in canada,

Source, please? Why would Toyota, which has perfectly capable battery
manufacturers nearby, use Canadian batteries?

> where for 1000
> yards around the plant nothing
> grows due to the chemicals that make up the batteries....

Source, please?

> The amount
> of Fuel used to ship the chemicals and
> raw materials for the batteries to canada, and then the fuel used to
> ship the comleted units to Japan outweight your 2% fuel savings
> over the life of the vehicle....

And of course you can produce the numbers to support this contention.

I believe that if you actually investigate instead of relying on what
somebody told you you will find that the "plant" in question is the
International Nickel Company (which is _not_ owned by Toyota) mine and
refining plant in Sudbury that has been producing a high percentage of
the nickel used in the world since 1870, and that most of the
environmental damage occurred prior to 1970 when there was a major
cleanup of the plant. Further, if you find the Sudbury plant on
Google Earth and measure the distance to the nearest tree you will
find that it is about 100 yards away.

What do _you_ think should be done to address energy consumption and
pollution by automobiles?


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Ronald Thompson

And then no one talks about what the effect of disposal of the batteries
will have.

Ron
Topp@Work wrote:
> "KC" <kevinceddy@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:646c58ca-025a-441f-8ef9-6d641447bd11@z26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 28, 5:40 pm, Nomen Nescio <***...@dizum.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I see a lot of people think its ugly, but personally, I think it looks
>>pretty cool.
>>It'd be perfect for my needs. I drive a '96 T100 single cab now, but
>>I can't fit my whole family in it. I love that its green, too. I
>>think it will sell.
>
>
> Green is relative....
> The batteries for these Hybrids are made in canada, where for 1000 yards
> around the plant nothing
> grows due to the chemicals that make up the batteries....The amount of Fuel
> used to ship the chemicals and
> raw materials for the batteries to canada, and then the fuel used to ship
> the comleted units to Japan outweight your 2% fuel savings
> over the life of the vehicle....
>
>

Topp@Work

"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@***.net> wrote in message
news:flb05l02msf@news5.newsguy.com...


Since Nickel is not mined in Japan in any quantity, how do you think it gets
there???
Just like steak, shipped and marked up...
Currently the charge is usually under 100 USD a ton...
but they use Diesel engines....
that have no emmission controls...
for thousands of miles at a time....crossing oceans,.....


Here are your cites:
" The battery pollution is substantial because the creation of the batteries
requires destructive mining to produce the batteries and the caustic
substances that power the batteries must later be disposed of. The caustic
substances that power the batteries are very poisonous and when released
into the environment leech into the waterways and poison groundwater. "
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~coreyp/hybridenvimp.html

Todays map of the Nickel mine that is where some of the raw materials come
from:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...988&iwloc=addr

Nice GREEN water...poluting the water table....
Miles of eco-disaster......


Here is how Nickel Ore is processed:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Read the part of Waste Characteristics on...
considering you only get a slight bit of nickel, per TON of environment
destroyed, I guess thats green to you...

Nice healthy chemicals (Sulfuric Acid) are used to get the nickel out.....
So healthy, in fact that Chroming is actaully so regulated now(similar
process and chemicals used) that many small shops
can no longer do it....


I wonder what the Sulfur dioxide thats pumped into the environment to
process this ore for batteries does....
Oh...I know....ACID RAIN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Rain_Program


>
> What do _you_ think should be done to address energy consumption and
> pollution by automobiles?

Well, put simply, most people point to Bio-deisel...
See, electric cars would be nice, but that means pluggin into yer house,
which gets power from the COAL plants....More bad air ....
Hydrogen would be nice too---but it is not cost effective to release the H
from the "Two O"....

So biodeisel would be a good start.

Socks

Cool looking vehicle!
It's the way of the future. People who can't accept something like
this are dinosaurs. Yesterday was yesterday, live for tomorrow, or
don't you want you grand children to be able to breath natural oxygen?
As far as battery disposal goes... Actually very easy.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:53:05 -0600, "David Coleman" <hickman@ktc.com>
wrote:

>
>"bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote in message
>news:w9SdnWA06veOI-janZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Frank" <frankdross@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:zMOdnR7f4KdYEejanZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> NICE
>>>
>>
>> UGLY!
>>
>>
>
>I agree. Just what the hell is that thing?? And all the yellow trim on it
>makes it look like a Tonka toy. I wouldn't want all that stuff on my truck.
>

Socks

Cool looking vehicle!
It's the way of the future. People who can't accept something like
this are dinosaurs. Yesterday was yesterday, live for tomorrow, or
don't you want you grand children to be able to breath natural oxygen?
As far as battery disposal goes... Actually very easy.
It's called recycling!

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:53:05 -0600, "David Coleman" <hickman@ktc.com>
wrote:

>
>"bearman" <noyb@home.com> wrote in message
>news:w9SdnWA06veOI-janZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Frank" <frankdross@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:zMOdnR7f4KdYEejanZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>> NICE
>>>
>>
>> UGLY!
>>
>>
>
>I agree. Just what the hell is that thing?? And all the yellow trim on it
>makes it look like a Tonka toy. I wouldn't want all that stuff on my truck.
>

J. Clarke

Topp@Work wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet@***.net> wrote in message
> news:flb05l02msf@news5.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Since Nickel is not mined in Japan in any quantity, how do you think
> it gets
> there???
> Just like steak, shipped and marked up...
> Currently the charge is usually under 100 USD a ton...

So what does that work out to in energy cost?

> but they use Diesel engines....
> that have no emmission controls...
> for thousands of miles at a time....crossing oceans,.....

So do you have numbers for emissions per ton mile for diesel powered
merchant ships? And what exempts ships carrying nickel from Canada to
Japan from MARPOL Annex VI?

> Here are your cites:
> " The battery pollution is substantial because the creation of the
> batteries
> requires destructive mining to produce the batteries and the caustic
> substances that power the batteries must later be disposed of. The
> caustic
> substances that power the batteries are very poisonous and when
> released
> into the environment leech into the waterways and poison
> groundwater.
> "
> http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~coreyp/hybridenvimp.html

I see no numbers. Define "substantial".

> Todays map of the Nickel mine that is where some of the raw
> materials
> come
> from:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...988&iwloc=addr
>
> Nice GREEN water...poluting the water table....

At what location is it "pouring"?

> Miles of eco-disaster......

In your opinion.

> Here is how Nickel Ore is processed:
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
>
> Read the part of Waste Characteristics on...
> considering you only get a slight bit of nickel, per TON of
> environment
> destroyed, I guess thats green to you...

What makes you think that mining a tone of nickel ore destroys a ton
of environment? Seems to me that if nickel is so all fired horrible
then perhaps the local environment is being improved by its removal.

> Nice healthy chemicals (Sulfuric Acid) are used to get the nickel
> out.....

You'd be happier if it was hydrochloric? How much of that sulfuric
acid leaves the refinery? I don't want to see "lots" or "too much" or
some other bogus appeal to emotion, I want to see a number and a
percentage of total sulfuric acid production.

> So healthy, in fact that Chroming is actaully so regulated
> now(similar
> process and chemicals used) that many small shops
> can no longer do it....

What, exactly, do you think that electroplating has to do with the
production of nickel? Yet another irrational appeal to emotion.

> I wonder what the Sulfur dioxide thats pumped into the environment
> to
> process this ore for batteries does....
> Oh...I know....ACID RAIN:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Rain_Program

Exactly how much sulfur dioxide would that be? Again I want to see a
number, not an irrational appeal to emotion.

>> What do _you_ think should be done to address energy consumption
>> and
>> pollution by automobiles?
>
> Well, put simply, most people point to Bio-deisel...

What percentage of people is "most"? How much acreage has to be
devoted to the production of bio-diesel to meet the demand? What are
the environmental costs of the production of bio-diesel? How much
synthetic fertilizer and how many tons of pesticides have to be
applied each year?

> See, electric cars would be nice, but that means pluggin into yer
> house,
> which gets power from the COAL plants....

Care to compare the pollution numbers from coal fired baseload power
plants to those of automotive diesel engines producing the equivalent
amount of energy?

> More bad air ....
> Hydrogen would be nice too---but it is not cost effective to release
> the H
> from the "Two O"....

Neither is biodiesel.

> So biodeisel would be a good start.

And where is the end?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

bearman

....
> Hydrogen would be nice too---but it is not cost effective to release the H
> from the "Two O"....


I think you need to release the H2 from the O.

--
Bearman

America: Land of the free because of the brave.