Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers
#6101
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"Brandon Sommerville" <grimrod@mindless.com.gov> wrote in message
news:027ccc8327688e937bc1d3dddb7c8994@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:49:02 -0500, "The Ancient One"
> <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> >news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>
> >> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and
lodged
> >> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful,
but
> >> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
> >> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough
manner.
> >
> >You were lucky they still had money in the budget at that time, otherwise
> >you would have been placed on a waiting list.
>
> Have you ever been to Canada?
Yes I have. I also have friends in Canada, England, Scotland, Japan and
Germany, and I have discussed their "free" healthcare with them many times.
#6102
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"Brandon Sommerville" <grimrod@mindless.com.gov> wrote in message
news:027ccc8327688e937bc1d3dddb7c8994@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:49:02 -0500, "The Ancient One"
> <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> >news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>
> >> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and
lodged
> >> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful,
but
> >> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
> >> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough
manner.
> >
> >You were lucky they still had money in the budget at that time, otherwise
> >you would have been placed on a waiting list.
>
> Have you ever been to Canada?
Yes I have. I also have friends in Canada, England, Scotland, Japan and
Germany, and I have discussed their "free" healthcare with them many times.
#6103
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"Brandon Sommerville" <grimrod@mindless.com.gov> wrote in message
news:027ccc8327688e937bc1d3dddb7c8994@news.teranew s.com...
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:49:02 -0500, "The Ancient One"
> <onlytheone@thetopknows.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> >news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>
> >> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and
lodged
> >> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful,
but
> >> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
> >> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough
manner.
> >
> >You were lucky they still had money in the budget at that time, otherwise
> >you would have been placed on a waiting list.
>
> Have you ever been to Canada?
Yes I have. I also have friends in Canada, England, Scotland, Japan and
Germany, and I have discussed their "free" healthcare with them many times.
#6104
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Posts: n/a
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"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
> >
> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
living
> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
Canadian
> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
of
> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
> >
> > DS
> >
>
> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
be
> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
a
> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
so,
> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
When
> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>
> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>
> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
#6105
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Posts: n/a
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"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
> >
> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
living
> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
Canadian
> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
of
> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
> >
> > DS
> >
>
> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
be
> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
a
> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
so,
> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
When
> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>
> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>
> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
#6106
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Posts: n/a
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"David J. Allen" <dallen03NO_SPAM@sanNO_SPAM.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a1Lzb.3199$WT6.3101@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> > > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
> >
> > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
living
> > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
> > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
> > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
Canadian
> > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
of
> > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
> >
> > DS
> >
>
> That's great. My experience in a French system was that it did fine for
> everyday stuff: bandages, pain killers, antibiotics. Even then it could
be
> a littel scary depending on the doctor you see. I was in an accident and
> hurt my hand and wrist. No big deal, but I was rushed to the hospital in
a
> scary ambulance ride (for sprain wrist!) and then when I got there, they
> took my vitals and then took care of my hand. All went well enough until
> the doctor saw my pulse rate. She thought is was too slow, dangerously
so,
> and so perscribed some pills (in a plastic bag) to speed my heart up.
When
> I got home I promply threw them away. I think my heart rate was in the
> 50's, which is not too slow. I felt great. No different than I ever did.
>
> A friend of mine had a more serious condition and even though he had the
> money to see a private doctor, went to the clinic. He went home in a box
> because they didn't misdiagnosed his condition.
>
> The problem was, in my view, that the best doctors wouldn't come near the
> socialized system, which paid poorly and rationed care. You cannot avoid
> the trade-offs of a socialized system and a private competitive system. A
> private system will leave some behind. A socialized system will give
> everyone less quality and quantity overall. It's true with any "product".
For a local example just look at the VA hospitals.
#6107
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Posts: n/a
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Matthew Russotto wrote:
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
#6108
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Matthew Russotto wrote:
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
#6109
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Matthew Russotto wrote:
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
> In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
>
>>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
>>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
>
>
> Medicaid.
>
>
>>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
>>
>>Lets compare, shall we?
>> Can. US
>>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
>
>
> Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> in 2001.
>
>
>>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
>
>
> 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
>
>
>>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
>
>
> 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
>
>
>>I could go on, but I won't.
>
>
> If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
>
>
You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
Thanks
Dan
#6110
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Posts: n/a
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Please stop your crossposting.
"Dan Gates" <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote in message
news:s_udnbF7nuGzGFKiRVn-vg@magma.ca...
> Matthew Russotto wrote:
> > In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> > Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
> >>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
> >
> >
> > Medicaid.
> >
> >
> >>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
> >>
> >>Lets compare, shall we?
> >> Can. US
> >>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
> >
> >
> > Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> > in 2001.
> >
> >
> >>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
> >
> >
> > 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
> >
> >
> >>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
> >
> >
> > 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
> >
> >
> >>I could go on, but I won't.
> >
> >
> > If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
> >
> >
>
>
> You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
> making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
> that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
> came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
> documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
> keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>
"Dan Gates" <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote in message
news:s_udnbF7nuGzGFKiRVn-vg@magma.ca...
> Matthew Russotto wrote:
> > In article <auadnZZDP9zV8lKiRVn-iQ@magma.ca>,
> > Dan Gates <dgates@kellerengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Get a life! The same low-lifes that crowd your "County" ERs for free
> >>medicare are crowding our ER for their freebies.
> >
> >
> > Medicaid.
> >
> >
> >>Most people using hospital services are their because they need to be!
> >>
> >>Lets compare, shall we?
> >> Can. US
> >>Life expectancy at birth? 82.7 66.9
> >
> >
> > Wrong. US life expectancy at birth was 77.2 in 2001. Canada's was 79.2
> > in 2001.
> >
> >
> >>Inpatient Care Beds/1,000 pop 20 17
> >
> >
> > 3.9 and 3.6 respectively.
> >
> >
> >>Acute Care Beds/1,000 pop 35 29
> >
> >
> > 4.0 and 3.7 respectively
> >
> >
> >>I could go on, but I won't.
> >
> >
> > If you want to just make stuff up, you can certainly do so.
> >
> >
>
>
> You are correct about the changes that you made to my numbers. I wasn't
> making them up though. I was looking at an "Appendix 2" of a document
> that had the numbers in it that I quoted. I can't figure out how they
> came up with the first numbers I used. When looking up some further
> documentation I did discover that "Appendix 1" had numbers more in
> keeping with your corrections. My numbers are for '98, '99 though.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>