In article <3FCE7CC4.EC8B0498@kinez.net>,
Bill Putney <bputney@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>
>> In article <3FCD297E.ACDFBAB3@kinez.net>,
>> Bill Putney <bputney@kinez.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Lloyd Parker wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > And yes, the Canada care system with its people fleeing to the US to
get
>> >> >needed healthcare would be an improvement in your alternate reality.
>> >>
>> >> Totally false.
>> >
>> >True. I personally witnessed this while actively spending over a year
>> >on an internet forum strictly for parents of a certain childhood form of
>> >cancer. There were people from all over the world on there, but
>> >particularly the U.S., Canada, and Britain. The gross malpractice that
>> >we witnessed on children in Canada due to its metered out healthcare was
>> >atrocious. The U.S. was the mecca of successful treatment.
>>
>> If you're rich.
>
>Uh - excuse me, but my daughter's medical bills in one year were more
>than I gross in ten years. You still skirted the issue, which was that
>Canada's healthcare system sucks.

You've still provided no objective source for that, whereas I have.

Canada's a democracy; if their health care system is so bad, why haven't the
people gotten rid of it? England's is even more socialized, but even the
conservative Thatcher realized it was so popular she didn't dare touch it.

>
>Bill Putney
>(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with "x")
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 

In article <3FCE8679.C036BE53@kinez.net>,
Bill Putney <bputney@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>
>> In article <3FCD3C1D.BE56D712@greg.greg>, Greg <greg@greg.greg> wrote:
>
>> >The only sources that appears to have credibility with you is the Sierra
Club
>> and
>> >Consumer Reports. Furthermore your slam against WSJ is false and you
cannot
>> >substantiate it.
>>
>> As I said, a newspaper that is avowedly pro-business cannot be considered
an
>> objective source.
>
>Man, we couldn't make this stuff up.
>
>Wow, Lloyd - you make even the stuff that conservatives know is an
>exageration of the what a sterotypical liberal is seem true. If I were
>a reasonable liberal, I would be telling you to shut the heck up because
>you're making us reasonable ones look foolish.
>
>There was a time not too many years ago when it was almost believable
>that your kind were the bastions of human rights issues the world over,
>and yet now you hate a decent man so much that you would let your hatred
>of him cause you to be apologists and useful idiots for a man who
>routinely did such things as have the eyes of a 3 month old baby gouged
>out while interrogating the baby's father, put people in tree shredders,
>kill and mutilate innocent people and send the body parts home to the
>family to be left in front of the house, etc. Your ilk has lost the
>claim to being the great supporters of human rights and decency for many
>years to come. Your presidential contenders have so confused themselves
>about what they pretended to believe is right and wrong that they now
>don't know which way to point their peckers.
>
>You elevate above the authority of the U.S. government in our own
>country the authority of an organization (the U.N.) that signed
>under-the-table agreements with international gay rights organizations
>to endorse and support NAMBLA (an organization that promotes and
>aggressively fights to legalize pedophilia the world over), only to be
>stopped by the U.S. Congress' officially adopting a resolution to stop
>paying its dues until its endorsement and support of such organizations
>ceased.

Flat-out lie.

>
>And we're supposed to look to you to tell us what's right when it comes
>to ethics, morality, and constituionality and set aside what we know to
>be right and just and moral. I will take my imperfect principles above
>your totally bankrupt sense of right and wrong *ANY* day.

You're supposed to act like a rational adult; I guess I expected too much.

>
>I could go on, but I've said quite enough I think.
>
>Bill Putney
>(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with "x")
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 

In article <3FCE8679.C036BE53@kinez.net>,
Bill Putney <bputney@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>
>> In article <3FCD3C1D.BE56D712@greg.greg>, Greg <greg@greg.greg> wrote:
>
>> >The only sources that appears to have credibility with you is the Sierra
Club
>> and
>> >Consumer Reports. Furthermore your slam against WSJ is false and you
cannot
>> >substantiate it.
>>
>> As I said, a newspaper that is avowedly pro-business cannot be considered
an
>> objective source.
>
>Man, we couldn't make this stuff up.
>
>Wow, Lloyd - you make even the stuff that conservatives know is an
>exageration of the what a sterotypical liberal is seem true. If I were
>a reasonable liberal, I would be telling you to shut the heck up because
>you're making us reasonable ones look foolish.
>
>There was a time not too many years ago when it was almost believable
>that your kind were the bastions of human rights issues the world over,
>and yet now you hate a decent man so much that you would let your hatred
>of him cause you to be apologists and useful idiots for a man who
>routinely did such things as have the eyes of a 3 month old baby gouged
>out while interrogating the baby's father, put people in tree shredders,
>kill and mutilate innocent people and send the body parts home to the
>family to be left in front of the house, etc. Your ilk has lost the
>claim to being the great supporters of human rights and decency for many
>years to come. Your presidential contenders have so confused themselves
>about what they pretended to believe is right and wrong that they now
>don't know which way to point their peckers.
>
>You elevate above the authority of the U.S. government in our own
>country the authority of an organization (the U.N.) that signed
>under-the-table agreements with international gay rights organizations
>to endorse and support NAMBLA (an organization that promotes and
>aggressively fights to legalize pedophilia the world over), only to be
>stopped by the U.S. Congress' officially adopting a resolution to stop
>paying its dues until its endorsement and support of such organizations
>ceased.

Flat-out lie.

>
>And we're supposed to look to you to tell us what's right when it comes
>to ethics, morality, and constituionality and set aside what we know to
>be right and just and moral. I will take my imperfect principles above
>your totally bankrupt sense of right and wrong *ANY* day.

You're supposed to act like a rational adult; I guess I expected too much.

>
>I could go on, but I've said quite enough I think.
>
>Bill Putney
>(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with "x")
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 

In article <3FCE8679.C036BE53@kinez.net>,
Bill Putney <bputney@kinez.net> wrote:
>
>
>Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>
>> In article <3FCD3C1D.BE56D712@greg.greg>, Greg <greg@greg.greg> wrote:
>
>> >The only sources that appears to have credibility with you is the Sierra
Club
>> and
>> >Consumer Reports. Furthermore your slam against WSJ is false and you
cannot
>> >substantiate it.
>>
>> As I said, a newspaper that is avowedly pro-business cannot be considered
an
>> objective source.
>
>Man, we couldn't make this stuff up.
>
>Wow, Lloyd - you make even the stuff that conservatives know is an
>exageration of the what a sterotypical liberal is seem true. If I were
>a reasonable liberal, I would be telling you to shut the heck up because
>you're making us reasonable ones look foolish.
>
>There was a time not too many years ago when it was almost believable
>that your kind were the bastions of human rights issues the world over,
>and yet now you hate a decent man so much that you would let your hatred
>of him cause you to be apologists and useful idiots for a man who
>routinely did such things as have the eyes of a 3 month old baby gouged
>out while interrogating the baby's father, put people in tree shredders,
>kill and mutilate innocent people and send the body parts home to the
>family to be left in front of the house, etc. Your ilk has lost the
>claim to being the great supporters of human rights and decency for many
>years to come. Your presidential contenders have so confused themselves
>about what they pretended to believe is right and wrong that they now
>don't know which way to point their peckers.
>
>You elevate above the authority of the U.S. government in our own
>country the authority of an organization (the U.N.) that signed
>under-the-table agreements with international gay rights organizations
>to endorse and support NAMBLA (an organization that promotes and
>aggressively fights to legalize pedophilia the world over), only to be
>stopped by the U.S. Congress' officially adopting a resolution to stop
>paying its dues until its endorsement and support of such organizations
>ceased.

Flat-out lie.

>
>And we're supposed to look to you to tell us what's right when it comes
>to ethics, morality, and constituionality and set aside what we know to
>be right and just and moral. I will take my imperfect principles above
>your totally bankrupt sense of right and wrong *ANY* day.

You're supposed to act like a rational adult; I guess I expected too much.

>
>I could go on, but I've said quite enough I think.
>
>Bill Putney
>(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>address with "x")
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 

In article <bqm2dd01v75@enews1.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>> > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>
>> I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American living
>> here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the Canadian
>> system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs of
>> most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> DS
>
>I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States and

Sorry, that's not "exposure." Read what people living in Canada and Britain
say. Not anecdotes.


>took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians basicaly
>forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling her
>she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system.

Yeah, sure.


> EMS met her
>at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four days
>"in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>
>She claimed she'd never received better care, that in the UK she'd have
>likely ruptured before they got around to treating her, which might have
>been days later. The only way to get health care "on demand" there would be
>to have either deep pockets, or as most folks do, private health insurance.
>
>I could go on, but before you think having the Govt. run health care would
>be better than what we have, think again. Yeah, our system sucks, but not as
>much as the others suck!

Both countries are democracies; they must like their health care systems.

>
>

 

In article <bqm2dd01v75@enews1.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>> > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>
>> I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American living
>> here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the Canadian
>> system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs of
>> most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> DS
>
>I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States and

Sorry, that's not "exposure." Read what people living in Canada and Britain
say. Not anecdotes.


>took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians basicaly
>forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling her
>she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system.

Yeah, sure.


> EMS met her
>at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four days
>"in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>
>She claimed she'd never received better care, that in the UK she'd have
>likely ruptured before they got around to treating her, which might have
>been days later. The only way to get health care "on demand" there would be
>to have either deep pockets, or as most folks do, private health insurance.
>
>I could go on, but before you think having the Govt. run health care would
>be better than what we have, think again. Yeah, our system sucks, but not as
>much as the others suck!

Both countries are democracies; they must like their health care systems.

>
>

 

In article <bqm2dd01v75@enews1.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312031922420.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Bill Putney wrote:
>>
>> > Canada's healthcare system sucks.
>>
>> I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American living
>> here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the Canadian
>> system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs of
>> most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> DS
>
>I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States and

Sorry, that's not "exposure." Read what people living in Canada and Britain
say. Not anecdotes.


>took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians basicaly
>forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling her
>she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system.

Yeah, sure.


> EMS met her
>at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four days
>"in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>
>She claimed she'd never received better care, that in the UK she'd have
>likely ruptured before they got around to treating her, which might have
>been days later. The only way to get health care "on demand" there would be
>to have either deep pockets, or as most folks do, private health insurance.
>
>I could go on, but before you think having the Govt. run health care would
>be better than what we have, think again. Yeah, our system sucks, but not as
>much as the others suck!

Both countries are democracies; they must like their health care systems.

>
>

 

In article <bqmefb0k0h@enews4.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Jerry McG wrote:
>>
>> > > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>living
>> > > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> > > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> > > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>Canadian
>> > > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>of
>> > > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> > I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>> > care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States
>and
>> > took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>> > there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians
>basicaly
>> > forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling
>her
>> > she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system. EMS met
>her
>> > at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>> > appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four
>days
>> > "in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>>
>> So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>> friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>> individuals.
>>
>> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>
>> I think my firsthand experience beats your fourth-hand crapola.
>>
>> DS
>
>Mr. Stern, the individual in question reported this to me firsthand, and is
>a UK citizen with full knowledge of their "system". The Canadians in
>question are my friends. I do not appreciate your characterization of my
>references as "crapola", sorry you don't agree. Americans are being fed a
>pile of ---- about the so called "superior" Canadian health care system, or
>the socialized meds of Europe. Both systems are institutionalized mediocrity
>at best. When their own citizens live in fear of receiving timely TREATMENT
>of illness, the system is a crock.
>
>
Obejctive studies find the opposite, and I hardly think a right-wing shill
like you has much credibility on the issue anyway.

 

In article <bqmefb0k0h@enews4.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Jerry McG wrote:
>>
>> > > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>living
>> > > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> > > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> > > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>Canadian
>> > > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>of
>> > > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> > I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>> > care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States
>and
>> > took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>> > there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians
>basicaly
>> > forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling
>her
>> > she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system. EMS met
>her
>> > at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>> > appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four
>days
>> > "in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>>
>> So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>> friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>> individuals.
>>
>> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>
>> I think my firsthand experience beats your fourth-hand crapola.
>>
>> DS
>
>Mr. Stern, the individual in question reported this to me firsthand, and is
>a UK citizen with full knowledge of their "system". The Canadians in
>question are my friends. I do not appreciate your characterization of my
>references as "crapola", sorry you don't agree. Americans are being fed a
>pile of ---- about the so called "superior" Canadian health care system, or
>the socialized meds of Europe. Both systems are institutionalized mediocrity
>at best. When their own citizens live in fear of receiving timely TREATMENT
>of illness, the system is a crock.
>
>
Obejctive studies find the opposite, and I hardly think a right-wing shill
like you has much credibility on the issue anyway.

 

In article <bqmefb0k0h@enews4.newsguy.com>,
"Jerry McG" <gmcgeorge.REMOVE@frontier.net> wrote:
>
>"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>news:Pine.SOL.4.44.0312032057380.21202-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>> On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Jerry McG wrote:
>>
>> > > I daresay you don't know what you're talking about. I'm an American
>living
>> > > here in Canada, and guess what? Canada's healthcare system is *vastly*
>> > > better than the US system in the vast majority of cases. Are there
>> > > exceptions? Surely. There's no such thing as perfection. But the
>Canadian
>> > > system does a much better job of handling most of the healthcare needs
>of
>> > > most of the people at a reasonable cost.
>>
>> > I had exposure to both the UKs socialized medicine and Canadian health
>> > care....run away! A Brit friend was visiting our offices in the States
>and
>> > took a run up to Toronto to see the Company's Canadian operations. While
>> > there she got the unmistakable signs of appendicitis. The Canadians
>basicaly
>> > forced her onto a plane to get her over the border to the USA, telling
>her
>> > she wanted NOTHING to do with the Canadian health care system. EMS met
>her
>> > at the airport, rushed her to the hospital where she had an emergency
>> > appendectomy within minutes of arrival. She then convalesced for four
>days
>> > "in hospital", as the Brits would say.
>>
>> So your perception of Canadian healthcare is based on the experience of a
>> friend of yours who was warned off the system by some unknown other
>> individuals.
>>
>> Mine is based on getting very suddenly struck down with a large and lodged
>> kidney stone at 4 in the morning while in Toronto. Extremely painful, but
>> not life threatening. I was diagnosed, treated, operated upon and
>> prescribed suitable meds in a fast, efficient, capable, thorough manner.
>>
>> I think my firsthand experience beats your fourth-hand crapola.
>>
>> DS
>
>Mr. Stern, the individual in question reported this to me firsthand, and is
>a UK citizen with full knowledge of their "system". The Canadians in
>question are my friends. I do not appreciate your characterization of my
>references as "crapola", sorry you don't agree. Americans are being fed a
>pile of ---- about the so called "superior" Canadian health care system, or
>the socialized meds of Europe. Both systems are institutionalized mediocrity
>at best. When their own citizens live in fear of receiving timely TREATMENT
>of illness, the system is a crock.
>
>
Obejctive studies find the opposite, and I hardly think a right-wing shill
like you has much credibility on the issue anyway.