Brent P

In article <newscache$0x5ymh$13o1$1@news.ipinc.net>, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> This may be true, but CAFE has also saved lives, because forcing vehicles
> to use less fuel helps to reduce pollution, and thus fewer people dying each
> year as a result of pollution-related illnesses. Most likely the lives lost by
> one thing are balanced by the other.

The pollution requirements are gram per mile. Honda civic or Ford crown
victoria, they have to meet the same standard. The only people who die
from CO2 are in a sealed room and don't have to worry about the cars
going down the road.

Brent P

In article <bms79l$6me$19@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:

> CAFE is one reason we get cars like the M3, E55, S4, etc.

No. We get them because their manufacturers (at least BMW) choose to ignore
CAFE and pass the tax on to the buyers.

Brent P

In article <bms79l$6me$19@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:

> CAFE is one reason we get cars like the M3, E55, S4, etc.

No. We get them because their manufacturers (at least BMW) choose to ignore
CAFE and pass the tax on to the buyers.

Brent P

In article <bms79l$6me$19@puck.cc.emory.edu>, Lloyd Parker wrote:

> CAFE is one reason we get cars like the M3, E55, S4, etc.

No. We get them because their manufacturers (at least BMW) choose to ignore
CAFE and pass the tax on to the buyers.

Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
>

I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
read the report that is being MIS-quoted?

Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
Very small 4-door cars 11.56
Small 4-door cars 7.85
Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
Large 4-door cars 3.30
Compact pickup trucks 6.82
Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
Minivans 2.76

The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).

Look who's on top.
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Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
>

I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
read the report that is being MIS-quoted?

Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
Very small 4-door cars 11.56
Small 4-door cars 7.85
Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
Large 4-door cars 3.30
Compact pickup trucks 6.82
Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
Minivans 2.76

The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).

Look who's on top.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181518.67be59b4@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
>

I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
read the report that is being MIS-quoted?

Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
Very small 4-door cars 11.56
Small 4-door cars 7.85
Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
Large 4-door cars 3.30
Compact pickup trucks 6.82
Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
Minivans 2.76

The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).

Look who's on top.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181550.72d33b7c@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@engin.umich> wrote in message news:<Pine.SOL.4.44.0310171205180.4904-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu>...
> > On 17 Oct 2003, Dianelos Georgoudis wrote:
> >
> > > The NHTSA study prove that the overall safety of SUVs is worse than of
> > > lighter passenger cars.
> >
> > Studies cannot prove or disprove. There are so many variables in data
> > sampling and collection and analysis and interpretation that all they can
> > do is suggest. They can strongly suggest, but they cannot prove. Any
> > reputable and ethical scientist will tell you this -- it's only the
> > political latchers-on who run around claiming to have a study "proving"
> > their agenda is correct.
>
> Large statistical studies do prove things beyond any reasonable doubt.
> Smoking is bad for your health. So, is seems, is driving a SUV.
>

But only half as bad as driving a small 4 door car, so it seems.
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Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181550.72d33b7c@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@engin.umich> wrote in message news:<Pine.SOL.4.44.0310171205180.4904-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu>...
> > On 17 Oct 2003, Dianelos Georgoudis wrote:
> >
> > > The NHTSA study prove that the overall safety of SUVs is worse than of
> > > lighter passenger cars.
> >
> > Studies cannot prove or disprove. There are so many variables in data
> > sampling and collection and analysis and interpretation that all they can
> > do is suggest. They can strongly suggest, but they cannot prove. Any
> > reputable and ethical scientist will tell you this -- it's only the
> > political latchers-on who run around claiming to have a study "proving"
> > their agenda is correct.
>
> Large statistical studies do prove things beyond any reasonable doubt.
> Smoking is bad for your health. So, is seems, is driving a SUV.
>

But only half as bad as driving a small 4 door car, so it seems.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

Chris Phillipo

In article <5ac380ce.0310181550.72d33b7c@posting.google.com >,
dianelos@tecapro.com says...
> "Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@engin.umich> wrote in message news:<Pine.SOL.4.44.0310171205180.4904-100000@alumni.engin.umich.edu>...
> > On 17 Oct 2003, Dianelos Georgoudis wrote:
> >
> > > The NHTSA study prove that the overall safety of SUVs is worse than of
> > > lighter passenger cars.
> >
> > Studies cannot prove or disprove. There are so many variables in data
> > sampling and collection and analysis and interpretation that all they can
> > do is suggest. They can strongly suggest, but they cannot prove. Any
> > reputable and ethical scientist will tell you this -- it's only the
> > political latchers-on who run around claiming to have a study "proving"
> > their agenda is correct.
>
> Large statistical studies do prove things beyond any reasonable doubt.
> Smoking is bad for your health. So, is seems, is driving a SUV.
>

But only half as bad as driving a small 4 door car, so it seems.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.