How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
11-09-2003, 08:22 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
Yep, I am well aware of the importance of caster angle. I do alignments
myself, and prefer to gain as much caster as possible on every alignment.
It makes most vehicles drive much nicer, the exception perhaps being cars
without power steering. In the case of Jeeps, it is my opinion (and many
have been given) that this lack of caster is the root cause of most "death
wobble" concerns. I suppose that you, Jeeper, and I are rebels in the midst
of Jeep purists. Real Jeeps wouldn't use a taller shackle, I don't suppose.
Jerry
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-FAFFAF.19053309112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <3faedad6_3@newspeer2.tds.net>,
> "belowme" <dontbotherme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > OK, then assuming that I correct my caster angle with steel shims (never
> > aluminum) and install a proper bump stop, the longer shackle shouldn't
be a
> > problem, right? You can't convince me that an aftermarket reinforced
> > shackle is weaker than the stamped out piece of metal that OEM installs.
> >
> > Actually, I have already decided to install shackles, I am just
wondering
> > what the popular (or not) opinion is. I also haven't decided how much
> > taller to make the shackles, I have made them long enough to go 3 inches
> > taller, although I am not likely to do that. I will probably go between
1
> > and 2. I also have a suspension lift kit installed, so I am not
concerned
> > about an old fatigued spring.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Well, as we have been shown castEr angle is important to steering
> geometry.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
myself, and prefer to gain as much caster as possible on every alignment.
It makes most vehicles drive much nicer, the exception perhaps being cars
without power steering. In the case of Jeeps, it is my opinion (and many
have been given) that this lack of caster is the root cause of most "death
wobble" concerns. I suppose that you, Jeeper, and I are rebels in the midst
of Jeep purists. Real Jeeps wouldn't use a taller shackle, I don't suppose.
Jerry
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-FAFFAF.19053309112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> In article <3faedad6_3@newspeer2.tds.net>,
> "belowme" <dontbotherme@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > OK, then assuming that I correct my caster angle with steel shims (never
> > aluminum) and install a proper bump stop, the longer shackle shouldn't
be a
> > problem, right? You can't convince me that an aftermarket reinforced
> > shackle is weaker than the stamped out piece of metal that OEM installs.
> >
> > Actually, I have already decided to install shackles, I am just
wondering
> > what the popular (or not) opinion is. I also haven't decided how much
> > taller to make the shackles, I have made them long enough to go 3 inches
> > taller, although I am not likely to do that. I will probably go between
1
> > and 2. I also have a suspension lift kit installed, so I am not
concerned
> > about an old fatigued spring.
> >
> > Jerry
>
> Well, as we have been shown castEr angle is important to steering
> geometry.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 08:59 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
In message <moomesa-2F1CD5.17364109112003@corp.newsfeeds.com>, "Jeepers" wrote:
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 08:59 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
In message <moomesa-2F1CD5.17364109112003@corp.newsfeeds.com>, "Jeepers" wrote:
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 08:59 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
In message <moomesa-2F1CD5.17364109112003@corp.newsfeeds.com>, "Jeepers" wrote:
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>In article <bomi2u$1futs9$1@ID-147790.news.uni-berlin.de>,
> "Earle Horton" <enfermero_diabolico@registerednurses.com> wrote:
>
>> > How do you figure there is more leverage? The weight pressing
>> > down on the front of the spring has not changed. Perhaps in that
>> > they are allowed to flex more before contacting the bump stop?
>>
>> Yes, and they screw up your caster angle too. They are also cheap. When
>> was the last time you bought anything cheap that was good?
>>
>> >
>> > Anyway, the question I was looking for an answer for, was:
>> > How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
>> >
>>
>> They look almost flat on mine, with about two inches to the bump stop and
>> one to one-and-a-half inch of bow (guesstimated).
>>
>> Earle
>
>My dilemma is what to fix to get the steering safer for the Mrs.
>
>I can't tell if the steering problem is the tires, worn leaves, longer
>shackles or if the vehicle was wrecked and the rear end is tracking
>loosely.
>
>It feels kinda like the rear wants to go to the left, when at speed,
>when the steering wheel is turned slightly to the left.
>
>The leaves look a bit on the flat side too.
>
>I'll be taking it to The Big City tomorrow, where I'll be able to find a
>flat level surface where I'll put my Handy-Dandy Craftsman level finder
>on the top of the knuckle to check the castor.
>
>Since I'm not made of money I wanted to go about this in a frugal
>manner.
Understandable. That's much more important than the steering being safe for the
Mrs...
>If I could determine if the leaves are beat, a lift kit with OEM
>shackles would be decent place to start. If the leaves are o.k. then I'd
>rather install some shims. But I'd hate to do the springs and find out
>the frame is bent and the cause of the troubles.
>
>I'm just not sure where to start.
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
>http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 09:31 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
You may have noticed the business you are referring to wouldn't use
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
11-09-2003, 09:31 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
You may have noticed the business you are referring to wouldn't use
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
11-09-2003, 09:31 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
You may have noticed the business you are referring to wouldn't use
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
long shackles: http://home.foothilloffroad.com/images/intro.JPG on the
cover page.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Jeepers wrote:
>
> The fellows out at http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ told me I could, at least find out if I was in the ballpark. Plus the
> fellow over at the local alignment shop said I was within specs. However
> I managed to NOT get a printout, so I don't know what the Jeep has. 6
> degrees is what I'm looking for. http://www.foothilloffroad.com/ said the angle finder would be close enough to find out whether or not
> I needed their degree shims.
>
> Right, that's what this is all about. But before I mess with the shims,
> I need to have the springs figured out.
>
> Give me a break, this ain't helping.
11-09-2003, 10:24 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
I suspect my wife's suspension is sagging, too. ;-) (She never reads the
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 10:24 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
I suspect my wife's suspension is sagging, too. ;-) (She never reads the
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
11-09-2003, 10:24 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How much curve should there be in stock YJ springs?
I suspect my wife's suspension is sagging, too. ;-) (She never reads the
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
group and will never see that comment.)
(I hope...) ;-)
--
Jim
"Jeepers" <moomesa@INVALIDfnbnet.net> wrote in message
news:moomesa-7F4066.13353209112003@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I suspect my wife's YJ springs are fatigued and causing steering
> troubles.
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----