Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Jeez. I was in similar conditions for Hogmanay and we did more like 30 mph
down the motorway.
Apart from anything else, if I tried to pass anyone you couldn't see
anything for the crap that got blown my way.
It may have been slow, but despite the fairly dense traffic I didn't see one
person that had fallen off the road.

Dave Milne, Scotland

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB1F45.70A7B413@cox.net...
> Hi Tim,
> If you drive the speed limit in the rain here in Kalifornia you
> will cited by a police officer for driving "too fast for conditions." :
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22350.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Tim Hayes wrote:
> >
> > L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> >
> > > A full time 4x4 doesn't disengage at any speed. That is a part
> > > time 4x4 mode which should never be used on a highway unless it
> > > is extremely slippery...enough to keep the driveline from binding
> > > up. And if the highway is slippery enough to need part time
> > > 4x4, 55 mph is insane.
> >
> > I disagree. Just last month I was traveling on I-78 in New Jersey during
> > the last blizzard we had. I was in 4wd-hi and moving at the speed limit
> > in 3-4" of fresh unplowed snow (the speed limit is 65).
> >
> > I had no binding of the drivetrain and was in control of the vehicle.
> > There were few other cars on the road and whenever I caught up to one
> > I'd slow down as much as necessary to pass safely.
> >
> > That was a blast, and I don't consider myself insane. This was no more
> > reckless than traveling 75mph on the same road in "bumper to bumper"
> > traffic during a rainstorm- conditions that happen regularly on that
road.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Jeez. I was in similar conditions for Hogmanay and we did more like 30 mph
down the motorway.
Apart from anything else, if I tried to pass anyone you couldn't see
anything for the crap that got blown my way.
It may have been slow, but despite the fairly dense traffic I didn't see one
person that had fallen off the road.

Dave Milne, Scotland

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB1F45.70A7B413@cox.net...
> Hi Tim,
> If you drive the speed limit in the rain here in Kalifornia you
> will cited by a police officer for driving "too fast for conditions." :
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22350.htm
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> Tim Hayes wrote:
> >
> > L0nD0t.$t0we11 wrote:
> >
> > > A full time 4x4 doesn't disengage at any speed. That is a part
> > > time 4x4 mode which should never be used on a highway unless it
> > > is extremely slippery...enough to keep the driveline from binding
> > > up. And if the highway is slippery enough to need part time
> > > 4x4, 55 mph is insane.
> >
> > I disagree. Just last month I was traveling on I-78 in New Jersey during
> > the last blizzard we had. I was in 4wd-hi and moving at the speed limit
> > in 3-4" of fresh unplowed snow (the speed limit is 65).
> >
> > I had no binding of the drivetrain and was in control of the vehicle.
> > There were few other cars on the road and whenever I caught up to one
> > I'd slow down as much as necessary to pass safely.
> >
> > That was a blast, and I don't consider myself insane. This was no more
> > reckless than traveling 75mph on the same road in "bumper to bumper"
> > traffic during a rainstorm- conditions that happen regularly on that
road.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca...
> FrankW wrote:
> >
> > Barry Bean wrote:
> > > "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in
> > > news:2BDKb.144057$VB2.547466@attbi_s51:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Roughly 1/6/04 08:36, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Let me be more specific-
> > >>
> > >> Always a good idea.
> > >>
> > >>>If I'm driving my Jeep Liberty on the interstate in bad weather (i.e.
> > >>>drizzle near freezing, light snow, patchy snow), is it safe to use
> > >>>"full time 4X4" at speeds of 55-75? The manual says I can safely ----
> > >>>in or out of 4wd at up to 55 mph, but makes no mention of a top
> > >>>speed, automatic disengage speed, or other limit on 4X4 at highway
> > >>>speed.
> > >>
> > >> This is probably because the manual mistakenly assumes something
> > >> resembling self-preservation instincts on the part of the driver.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please. Its not unusual to drive in conditions that allow traffic to
flow
> > > at the speed limit, but at the same time warrant extra attention or
> > > efforts to maintain control.
> >
> > Yea! wait until you have to apply the brakes and stop quickly
> > or a heavy gust of wind blows. Your eyes will be really wide open :-)
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> A full time 4wd can be left engaged at any speed, as it has the
> > >> slippage needed. HOWEVER this does not mean it is anything
> > >> less than insanely reckless, homicidal, and suicidal to actually
> > >> drive at high speeds under degraded weather conditions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, that's helpful. Nothing furthers a discussion like having
someone
> > > take your comments out of context, assume facts not in evidence, and
> > > attack.
> > >
> > >
> > Driving at high speeds when 4x4 is required is just plain reckless!
> > Asking how fast you can go in 4x4 on snow etc, is a stupid question in
> > my opinion. I'll see you in the ditch :-)
> >
> > It seems every snowfall there are more SUV's in the ditch than even 2x4
> > cars etc. I wonder why ? Too cocky maybe
>
> Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
>
> When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>
> If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> blink.
>
> People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
>
> Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
>
> If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
>

I am not sure this is an entirely accurate assessment, Mike. What the brakes
do has much more to do with the proper adjustment of them, or the lack of
proper adjustment - as the case may be - and less to do with the drive
system, FWD, RWD, or 4WD.

I agree with the results you describe, but I don't think they have nearly as
much to do with the drive system than the adjustment specifications being
met or not. The problem with 4WD is that while you can "go" better, you
"stop" just the same, and this can be a huge problem if the conditions are
poor. Most of us drive as fast as we can go, but we should be driving only
as fast as we can stop. Of course, we only find out that going as fast as we
can is problematic when it is discovered that we can't stop.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca...
> FrankW wrote:
> >
> > Barry Bean wrote:
> > > "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in
> > > news:2BDKb.144057$VB2.547466@attbi_s51:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Roughly 1/6/04 08:36, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Let me be more specific-
> > >>
> > >> Always a good idea.
> > >>
> > >>>If I'm driving my Jeep Liberty on the interstate in bad weather (i.e.
> > >>>drizzle near freezing, light snow, patchy snow), is it safe to use
> > >>>"full time 4X4" at speeds of 55-75? The manual says I can safely ----
> > >>>in or out of 4wd at up to 55 mph, but makes no mention of a top
> > >>>speed, automatic disengage speed, or other limit on 4X4 at highway
> > >>>speed.
> > >>
> > >> This is probably because the manual mistakenly assumes something
> > >> resembling self-preservation instincts on the part of the driver.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please. Its not unusual to drive in conditions that allow traffic to
flow
> > > at the speed limit, but at the same time warrant extra attention or
> > > efforts to maintain control.
> >
> > Yea! wait until you have to apply the brakes and stop quickly
> > or a heavy gust of wind blows. Your eyes will be really wide open :-)
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> A full time 4wd can be left engaged at any speed, as it has the
> > >> slippage needed. HOWEVER this does not mean it is anything
> > >> less than insanely reckless, homicidal, and suicidal to actually
> > >> drive at high speeds under degraded weather conditions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, that's helpful. Nothing furthers a discussion like having
someone
> > > take your comments out of context, assume facts not in evidence, and
> > > attack.
> > >
> > >
> > Driving at high speeds when 4x4 is required is just plain reckless!
> > Asking how fast you can go in 4x4 on snow etc, is a stupid question in
> > my opinion. I'll see you in the ditch :-)
> >
> > It seems every snowfall there are more SUV's in the ditch than even 2x4
> > cars etc. I wonder why ? Too cocky maybe
>
> Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
>
> When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>
> If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> blink.
>
> People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
>
> Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
>
> If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
>

I am not sure this is an entirely accurate assessment, Mike. What the brakes
do has much more to do with the proper adjustment of them, or the lack of
proper adjustment - as the case may be - and less to do with the drive
system, FWD, RWD, or 4WD.

I agree with the results you describe, but I don't think they have nearly as
much to do with the drive system than the adjustment specifications being
met or not. The problem with 4WD is that while you can "go" better, you
"stop" just the same, and this can be a huge problem if the conditions are
poor. Most of us drive as fast as we can go, but we should be driving only
as fast as we can stop. Of course, we only find out that going as fast as we
can is problematic when it is discovered that we can't stop.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca...
> FrankW wrote:
> >
> > Barry Bean wrote:
> > > "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> wrote in
> > > news:2BDKb.144057$VB2.547466@attbi_s51:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Roughly 1/6/04 08:36, Barry Bean's monkeys randomly typed:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Let me be more specific-
> > >>
> > >> Always a good idea.
> > >>
> > >>>If I'm driving my Jeep Liberty on the interstate in bad weather (i.e.
> > >>>drizzle near freezing, light snow, patchy snow), is it safe to use
> > >>>"full time 4X4" at speeds of 55-75? The manual says I can safely ----
> > >>>in or out of 4wd at up to 55 mph, but makes no mention of a top
> > >>>speed, automatic disengage speed, or other limit on 4X4 at highway
> > >>>speed.
> > >>
> > >> This is probably because the manual mistakenly assumes something
> > >> resembling self-preservation instincts on the part of the driver.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please. Its not unusual to drive in conditions that allow traffic to
flow
> > > at the speed limit, but at the same time warrant extra attention or
> > > efforts to maintain control.
> >
> > Yea! wait until you have to apply the brakes and stop quickly
> > or a heavy gust of wind blows. Your eyes will be really wide open :-)
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> A full time 4wd can be left engaged at any speed, as it has the
> > >> slippage needed. HOWEVER this does not mean it is anything
> > >> less than insanely reckless, homicidal, and suicidal to actually
> > >> drive at high speeds under degraded weather conditions.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks, that's helpful. Nothing furthers a discussion like having
someone
> > > take your comments out of context, assume facts not in evidence, and
> > > attack.
> > >
> > >
> > Driving at high speeds when 4x4 is required is just plain reckless!
> > Asking how fast you can go in 4x4 on snow etc, is a stupid question in
> > my opinion. I'll see you in the ditch :-)
> >
> > It seems every snowfall there are more SUV's in the ditch than even 2x4
> > cars etc. I wonder why ? Too cocky maybe
>
> Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
>
> When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>
> If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> blink.
>
> People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
>
> Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
>
> If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
>

I am not sure this is an entirely accurate assessment, Mike. What the brakes
do has much more to do with the proper adjustment of them, or the lack of
proper adjustment - as the case may be - and less to do with the drive
system, FWD, RWD, or 4WD.

I agree with the results you describe, but I don't think they have nearly as
much to do with the drive system than the adjustment specifications being
met or not. The problem with 4WD is that while you can "go" better, you
"stop" just the same, and this can be a huge problem if the conditions are
poor. Most of us drive as fast as we can go, but we should be driving only
as fast as we can stop. Of course, we only find out that going as fast as we
can is problematic when it is discovered that we can't stop.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB1F45.70A7B413@cox.net...
> Hi Tim,
> If you drive the speed limit in the rain here in Kalifornia you
> will cited by a police officer for driving "too fast for conditions." :


While certainly true in theory, it is seldom true in practice.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB1F45.70A7B413@cox.net...
> Hi Tim,
> If you drive the speed limit in the rain here in Kalifornia you
> will cited by a police officer for driving "too fast for conditions." :


While certainly true in theory, it is seldom true in practice.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB1F45.70A7B413@cox.net...
> Hi Tim,
> If you drive the speed limit in the rain here in Kalifornia you
> will cited by a police officer for driving "too fast for conditions." :


While certainly true in theory, it is seldom true in practice.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Hi Lon,
Interesting how you note two wheel drive. I don't think most know
the little rear engine 911 has been four wheel drive for a long time:
http://www.autobytel.com/content/res...urbo-Coupe.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> Actually the best foul weather highway car I ever owned was a
> darned Porsche 914/2. The balance and steering pretty much
> made up for the lack of ground clearance or 4wd. Used
> to drive that little sucker on freeways where even the
> Semi's were beginning to head for safer venues... and passed
> many a 4wd vehicle in the ditch.
>
> Now for *slow* driving in really sucky weather, my preference
> would be a farm tractor if it weren't for the brass monkey
> factor, so will stick with a 4wd for that.
>
> However, perhaps it is from growing up in areas where you
> could drive on the highway more safely than you could walk
> that gives me the willies when folks honestly are of the
> highly mistaken impression that a 4wd is worth squat on
> a freeway at high speed.
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Hi Lon,
Interesting how you note two wheel drive. I don't think most know
the little rear engine 911 has been four wheel drive for a long time:
http://www.autobytel.com/content/res...urbo-Coupe.htm
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> Actually the best foul weather highway car I ever owned was a
> darned Porsche 914/2. The balance and steering pretty much
> made up for the lack of ground clearance or 4wd. Used
> to drive that little sucker on freeways where even the
> Semi's were beginning to head for safer venues... and passed
> many a 4wd vehicle in the ditch.
>
> Now for *slow* driving in really sucky weather, my preference
> would be a farm tractor if it weren't for the brass monkey
> factor, so will stick with a 4wd for that.
>
> However, perhaps it is from growing up in areas where you
> could drive on the highway more safely than you could walk
> that gives me the willies when folks honestly are of the
> highly mistaken impression that a 4wd is worth squat on
> a freeway at high speed.
>
> --
> Fan of the dumbest team in America.