Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
09-13-2005, 10:39 PM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
09-13-2005, 10:39 PM
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
09-13-2005, 10:39 PM
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
on any other engine? Please explain.
In message <432748DA.30349B43@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>not on a 4 litre
>
>bllsht wrote:
>
>> A failed coil will kill 2 cylinders.
>>
>> In message <hDqVe.248$H62.42@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Stephen Cowell"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
>> >news:qbf9i1l4ofcqsea1f6ion8ee3i0pjr77po@4ax.com.. .
>> >> They sure as hell do!
>> >> In message <43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net>, "tim bur" wrote:
>> >> >> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>> >misfire?
>> >
>> >Only an open circuit would misfire both
>> >plugs on a lost-spark ignition... a fouled
>> >plug merely helps the other plug fire.
>> >__
>> >Steve
>> >.
>> >
09-13-2005, 11:12 PM
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Even though it looks like one coil, there must be two inside as we
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
09-13-2005, 11:12 PM
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Even though it looks like one coil, there must be two inside as we
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
09-13-2005, 11:12 PM
#76
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Even though it looks like one coil, there must be two inside as we
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
09-13-2005, 11:12 PM
#77
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
Even though it looks like one coil, there must be two inside as we
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
know electricity follows the path of least resistance. And so like my
Harley they are both triggered by single ignition hot discharge wire.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
bllsht wrote:
>
> Oh, so the waste spark system on the 4.0L different than the waste spark system
> on any other engine? Please explain.
09-14-2005, 08:18 PM
#78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
OK, that's what I meant...
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
09-14-2005, 08:18 PM
#79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
OK, that's what I meant...
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
09-14-2005, 08:18 PM
#80
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Help with rough idle and acceleration - TIA
OK, that's what I meant...
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
"bllsht" <nospam@invaliddot.net> wrote in message
news:8mo9i1h18n35h5ts8rc62sg0qtj6hrm9ua@4ax.com...
> Actually, it's 1 coil pack containing 3 coils. Each coil operating 2
> cylinders.
>
> In message <uqidnXAodsszSLneRVn-pQ@comcast.com>, "Matt Macchiarolo"
> wrote:
>
>>That's the 4.0L, not the V-8. 4.0L I-6 uses three coil packs, one per two
>>plugs.
>>
>>"tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>news:43249F9E.6F32B587@cac.net...
>>> not on that coil pac
>>>
>>> Billy Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>> Don't each of the coil packs handle 2 cylinders? Wouldn't both
>>>> misfire?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> .
>>>> Billy_Ray@SPAM.fuse.net (remove SPAM)
>>>> 2002 Jeep WJ 4 Liter Automatic
>>>> Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl Coat
>>>> Sharing is why we are all here....... or should be.
>>>> .
>>>> "tim bur" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:43236F02.32C2328F@cac.net...
>>>> > fouled spark plug, failed injector, and a failed coil pac ,
>>>> >
>>>> > ken859@optonline.net wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
>>>> >> Inline 6 Cylinder Engine
>>>> >> Automatic Transmission
>>>> >> Stock - No modifications
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Symptoms:
>>>> >> After car warms up (3-5 Minutes) the engine idle drops to about
>>>> >> 600RPM
>>>> >> and the car starts shaking rapidly. When you accelerate the car
>>>> >> shakes repeatedly between 600RPM and 1500RPM. At 50 miles an hour,
>>>> >> pressing the accelerator slightly to maintain a steady velocity
>>>> >> (which
>>>> >> is about 1500RPM) the car will experience the shake while driving.
>>>> >> Moderate acceleration the problem goes away. Lifting off of the gas
>>>> >> and the problem goes away until the above rpm range is reached and
>>>> >> then problem comes back
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Followup:
>>>> >> Computer diagnostics indicates a miss fire on cylinder # 5
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question:
>>>> >> Could this be a clogged injector or are there other suggestions?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> TIA Ken
>>>> >
>>>
>>
