Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

How long has it been now?

Congratulations to you.... good luck to Mel!

My baby's birthday is tomorrow....

"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:454E19EC.2E003816@sympatico.ca...
> Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> on the agenda.
>
> Mike
>
> billy ray wrote:
>>
>> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
>> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
>> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
>> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
>> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
>> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
>> >
>> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
>> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
>> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
>> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
>> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
>> >
>> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a
>> > lower
>> > tub lift.
>> >
>> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
>> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
>> >
>> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
>> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
>> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >
>> > neil wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
>> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
>> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
>> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
>> >>
>> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is
>> >> in
>> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
>> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
>> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
>> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>> >> hanks. -Neil
>> >>
>> >> Micah wrote:
>> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
>> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
>> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually
>> >> > results
>> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
>> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, we are just having a relaxing weekend. Having a lobster feed
tonight. Mmmm.

Mike

jbjeep wrote:
>
> Oh man, that really sucks Mike! So sorry to hear that. Happy anniversary to you and
> the Mrs.
> -jenn
>
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:05:48 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >>Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> >>insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> >>it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> >>fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> >>on the agenda.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>billy ray wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>>
> >>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >>> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >>> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >>> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >>> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >>> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >>> >
> >>> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >>> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >>> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >>> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >>> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >>> >
> >>> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a lower
> >>> > tub lift.
> >>> >
> >>> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >>> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >>> >
> >>> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >>> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >>> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >>> >
> >>> > Mike
> >>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>> >
> >>> > neil wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >>> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >>> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >>> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is in
> >>> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >>> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >>> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >>> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -Neil
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Micah wrote:
> >>> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >>> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >>> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually results
> >>> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >>> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, we are just having a relaxing weekend. Having a lobster feed
tonight. Mmmm.

Mike

jbjeep wrote:
>
> Oh man, that really sucks Mike! So sorry to hear that. Happy anniversary to you and
> the Mrs.
> -jenn
>
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:05:48 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >>Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> >>insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> >>it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> >>fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> >>on the agenda.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>billy ray wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>>
> >>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >>> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >>> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >>> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >>> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >>> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >>> >
> >>> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >>> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >>> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >>> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >>> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >>> >
> >>> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a lower
> >>> > tub lift.
> >>> >
> >>> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >>> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >>> >
> >>> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >>> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >>> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >>> >
> >>> > Mike
> >>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>> >
> >>> > neil wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >>> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >>> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >>> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is in
> >>> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >>> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >>> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >>> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -Neil
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Micah wrote:
> >>> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >>> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >>> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually results
> >>> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >>> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, we are just having a relaxing weekend. Having a lobster feed
tonight. Mmmm.

Mike

jbjeep wrote:
>
> Oh man, that really sucks Mike! So sorry to hear that. Happy anniversary to you and
> the Mrs.
> -jenn
>
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:05:48 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >>Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> >>insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> >>it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> >>fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> >>on the agenda.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>billy ray wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>>
> >>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >>> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >>> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >>> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >>> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >>> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >>> >
> >>> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >>> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >>> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >>> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >>> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >>> >
> >>> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a lower
> >>> > tub lift.
> >>> >
> >>> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >>> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >>> >
> >>> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >>> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >>> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >>> >
> >>> > Mike
> >>> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >>> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >>> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >>> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >>> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >>> >
> >>> > neil wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >>> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >>> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >>> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is in
> >>> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >>> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >>> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >>> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. -Neil
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Micah wrote:
> >>> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >>> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >>> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually results
> >>> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >>> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, my wife and I have been together since '78. Time flies, our son
is now 22.

Mike

billy ray wrote:
>
> How long has it been now?
>
> Congratulations to you.... good luck to Mel!
>
> My baby's birthday is tomorrow....
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:454E19EC.2E003816@sympatico.ca...
> > Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> > insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> > it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> > fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> > on the agenda.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >> >
> >> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >> >
> >> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a
> >> > lower
> >> > tub lift.
> >> >
> >> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >> >
> >> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> >
> >> > neil wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >> >>
> >> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is
> >> >> in
> >> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >> >> hanks. -Neil
> >> >>
> >> >> Micah wrote:
> >> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually
> >> >> > results
> >> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, my wife and I have been together since '78. Time flies, our son
is now 22.

Mike

billy ray wrote:
>
> How long has it been now?
>
> Congratulations to you.... good luck to Mel!
>
> My baby's birthday is tomorrow....
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:454E19EC.2E003816@sympatico.ca...
> > Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> > insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> > it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> > fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> > on the agenda.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >> >
> >> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >> >
> >> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a
> >> > lower
> >> > tub lift.
> >> >
> >> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >> >
> >> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> >
> >> > neil wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >> >>
> >> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is
> >> >> in
> >> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >> >> hanks. -Neil
> >> >>
> >> >> Micah wrote:
> >> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually
> >> >> > results
> >> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.

Re: having to double clutching on an 04 Wrangler X
 

Thanks, my wife and I have been together since '78. Time flies, our son
is now 22.

Mike

billy ray wrote:
>
> How long has it been now?
>
> Congratulations to you.... good luck to Mel!
>
> My baby's birthday is tomorrow....
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:454E19EC.2E003816@sympatico.ca...
> > Unfortunately I moved the wrong way this week and my damaged neck went
> > insane on me so I can't even drive, can barely breath. It's a bummer,
> > it is our anniversary this weekend and we had a cottage with a nice cozy
> > fireplace and outdoor hot tub waiting for us... Wheeling wasn't really
> > on the agenda.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > billy ray wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike, I thought you were going wheeling this weekend?
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:454E0F8D.F17DB5F3@sympatico.ca...
> >> >I would recommend you first verify that the lift, being so tall, hasn't
> >> > already bent the body mounts on the frame causing the tub to be out of
> >> > line. If the tub is even slightly off center, the shifter can jam
> >> > against it when you try to hit certain gears like 1st or 2nd or if the
> >> > body is leaning the other way, 5th and reverse.
> >> >
> >> > A 3" body lift is so tall it is basically unstable and will stress out
> >> > the mounts or the tub plates. This was happening to a friend from this
> >> > group with one, so we took out the lift tubes and cut them in half to
> >> > give him and another Jeeper from this group both a 1.5" body lift to go
> >> > with their suspension lift. They haven't had problems since.
> >> >
> >> > You would be better off with a cheap coil spring spacer lift and a
> >> > lower
> >> > tub lift.
> >> >
> >> > To check if the body is out of line you can use a tape measure at the
> >> > corners of the tub and measure from the edge to the frame.
> >> >
> >> > I have also heard of some folks having to remove the shifter boots and
> >> > actually snip mental and even having to leave one of the boots off.
> >> > Others have heated the shifter with a torch and bent it to fit.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> >> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> >
> >> > neil wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for the reply, do you think that the grinding that I experience
> >> >> going from first to second is primarily caused by the 3 inch lift? If
> >> >> so, is there an after market item that can help to compensate for all
> >> >> of the additional rough shifting that occurrs as a result of the lift?
> >> >>
> >> >> Or should I just check all of the fluids and ensure that no water is
> >> >> in
> >> >> where it should not be? Or both? The grinding that occurs from 1st
> >> >> gear to 2nd is the only complaint that I have about the vehicle, if I
> >> >> could solve that problem, then I would be very pleased with the Jeep's
> >> >> performance. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >> >> hanks. -Neil
> >> >>
> >> >> Micah wrote:
> >> >> > Having a 3 inch body lift means your body is 3" higher above the
> >> >> > transmission than it should be. Since your shifter goes from the
> >> >> > transmission, through the body and into the cab, this usually
> >> >> > results
> >> >> > in some pretty rough shifting, it kind of makes you have to move the
> >> >> > stick in ways the transmission doesn't want it to go.