Hard Downshifting
11-26-2005, 06:44 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Update
I would try it just to see what happens.
It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
Mike
Spdloader wrote:
>
> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of ideas,
> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>
> Spdloader
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was ever
> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
> >
> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
> >
> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I think
> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
> >>
> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I could
> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
> >>
> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
> >> the tranny input shaft.
> >>
> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
> >> done....
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Spdloader wrote:
> >> >
> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and tires.
> >> >
> >> > Spdloader
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> > >
> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
> >> > >> were
> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
> >> > >> start,
> >> > >> and I
> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No change in the problem.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Spdloader
> >> > >>
> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or clutch
> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the engine,
> >> > >> > maybe
> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
> >> > >> > pedal
> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
> >> > >> > pilot
> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
> >> > >> > causing
> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if you
> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting together
> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
> >> > >> > fine
> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
> >> > >> > entering a
> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked great
> >> > >> > but
> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
> >> > >> > been
> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
> >> > >> > contributed to
> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a few
> >> > >> > months
> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from the
> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus cloth
> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was fine
> >> > >> > since.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
> >> > >> >> stopped.
> >> > >> >> It'll
> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Spdloader
> >> > >> >
It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
Mike
Spdloader wrote:
>
> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of ideas,
> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>
> Spdloader
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was ever
> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
> >
> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
> >
> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I think
> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
> >>
> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I could
> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
> >>
> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
> >> the tranny input shaft.
> >>
> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
> >> done....
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Spdloader wrote:
> >> >
> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and tires.
> >> >
> >> > Spdloader
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> > >
> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
> >> > >> were
> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
> >> > >> start,
> >> > >> and I
> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No change in the problem.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Spdloader
> >> > >>
> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or clutch
> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the engine,
> >> > >> > maybe
> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
> >> > >> > pedal
> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
> >> > >> > pilot
> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
> >> > >> > causing
> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if you
> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting together
> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
> >> > >> > fine
> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
> >> > >> > entering a
> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked great
> >> > >> > but
> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
> >> > >> > been
> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
> >> > >> > contributed to
> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a few
> >> > >> > months
> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from the
> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus cloth
> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was fine
> >> > >> > since.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
> >> > >> >> stopped.
> >> > >> >> It'll
> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Spdloader
> >> > >> >
11-26-2005, 06:44 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Update
I would try it just to see what happens.
It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
Mike
Spdloader wrote:
>
> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of ideas,
> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>
> Spdloader
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was ever
> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
> >
> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
> >
> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I think
> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
> >>
> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I could
> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
> >>
> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
> >> the tranny input shaft.
> >>
> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
> >> done....
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Spdloader wrote:
> >> >
> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and tires.
> >> >
> >> > Spdloader
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> > >
> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
> >> > >> were
> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
> >> > >> start,
> >> > >> and I
> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No change in the problem.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Spdloader
> >> > >>
> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or clutch
> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the engine,
> >> > >> > maybe
> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
> >> > >> > pedal
> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
> >> > >> > pilot
> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
> >> > >> > causing
> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if you
> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting together
> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
> >> > >> > fine
> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
> >> > >> > entering a
> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked great
> >> > >> > but
> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
> >> > >> > been
> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
> >> > >> > contributed to
> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a few
> >> > >> > months
> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from the
> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus cloth
> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was fine
> >> > >> > since.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
> >> > >> >> stopped.
> >> > >> >> It'll
> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Spdloader
> >> > >> >
It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
Mike
Spdloader wrote:
>
> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of ideas,
> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>
> Spdloader
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was ever
> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
> >
> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
> >
> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I think
> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
> >>
> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I could
> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
> >>
> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
> >> the tranny input shaft.
> >>
> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
> >> done....
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> Spdloader wrote:
> >> >
> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and tires.
> >> >
> >> > Spdloader
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike
> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >> > >
> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
> >> > >> were
> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
> >> > >> start,
> >> > >> and I
> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> No change in the problem.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Spdloader
> >> > >>
> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or clutch
> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the engine,
> >> > >> > maybe
> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
> >> > >> > pedal
> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
> >> > >> > pilot
> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
> >> > >> > causing
> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if you
> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting together
> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
> >> > >> > fine
> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
> >> > >> > entering a
> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked great
> >> > >> > but
> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
> >> > >> > been
> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
> >> > >> > contributed to
> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a few
> >> > >> > months
> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from the
> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus cloth
> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was fine
> >> > >> > since.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
> >> > >> >> stopped.
> >> > >> >> It'll
> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Spdloader
> >> > >> >
11-26-2005, 08:47 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Update
Thanks, that's my Sunday project.
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
11-26-2005, 08:47 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Update
Thanks, that's my Sunday project.
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
11-26-2005, 08:47 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Update
Thanks, that's my Sunday project.
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
Later,
Spdloader
"Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:4388F346.29F94A47@sympatico.ca...
>I would try it just to see what happens.
>
> It then can come down to getting used to it or pulling the tranny to see
> if the pilot or throwout bearings are seized up....
>
> Mike
>
> Spdloader wrote:
>>
>> Mike, the body and shifter and all seem straight. I have run out of
>> ideas,
>> except for bleeding again. Can the slave be gravity bled like brakes?
>>
>> Spdloader
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:437F441C.88582038@sympatico.ca...
>> > One other thing. Is the body square on the frame? If the Jeep was
>> > ever
>> > in a front corner impact, the body can shift in that direction which
>> > could cause the shifter to tag the boot.
>> >
>> > That also happened to me when I rolled mine the second time. It was a
>> > bugger to shift into second and reverse. My body had shifted about a
>> > half inch on the mounts. You can check with a tape measure.
>> >
>> > I guess you could also pull the boot to see if it is hitting...
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > Mike Romain wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ok, I was fishing for a physical limitation on the shifter stick
>> >> itself. A body lift can cause the shifter to bind on the boot. I
>> >> think
>> >> I mentioned mounts before too.
>> >>
>> >> My T-5 acted like that when the tranny got GL4-GL5 'compatible' oil in
>> >> it. I changed out to semi-synthetic because it was the only oil I
>> >> could
>> >> find in a GL4 with no limited slip additive or 'friction modifier'.
>> >>
>> >> So if the clutch appears ok for the rest of the gears except the lower
>> >> ones, reverse is a 'low' gear, that implies something is spinning up
>> >> the tranny input shaft.
>> >>
>> >> The next suspect is the pilot bearing. Lots of folks forget the pilot
>> >> bearing in the flywheel needs a good grease job when the clutch is
>> >> done....
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> Spdloader wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > No body lift, it's stock except for slightly oversize wheels and
>> >> > tires.
>> >> >
>> >> > Spdloader
>> >> >
>> >> > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> >> > news:437F3677.CC1189DE@sympatico.ca...
>> >> > > Does the Jeep have a body lift?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mike
>> >> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> >> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> >> > > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> >> > > Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
>> >> > > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I bled the slave with no sign of air, assuming I'd see it as if I
>> >> > >> were
>> >> > >> bleeding the brakes, the clutch master cylinder was full at the
>> >> > >> start,
>> >> > >> and I
>> >> > >> kept it that way during the process.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> No change in the problem.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Spdloader
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> "jdarg" <ruhle@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >> news:1131743014.121647.243160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> > >> > It's not an internal problem, almost certainly clutch (or
>> >> > >> > clutch
>> >> > >> > hydraulics) related. Your input shaft is turning with the
>> >> > >> > engine,
>> >> > >> > maybe
>> >> > >> > not way up at idle RPM but more than normal, when you press the
>> >> > >> > pedal
>> >> > >> > to the floor. The clutch is not completely disengaging or the
>> >> > >> > pilot
>> >> > >> > bushing-to-input shaft interface has too much friction which is
>> >> > >> > causing
>> >> > >> > the input shaft to continue spinning. You can confirm this if
>> >> > >> > you
>> >> > >> > gently ease it into reverse and hear the gears ratcheting
>> >> > >> > together
>> >> > >> > without coming to a stop in a couple of seconds.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > If your Jeep had sat at some point, read on...
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I had a similar problem with my '94 YJ (also 2.5L, MT) - it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > when cool, but acted up once the engine warmed up, but was
>> >> > >> > intermittent. I'd either have to go into 4th or 5th before
>> >> > >> > entering a
>> >> > >> > lower gear once stopped or kill the engine to shift into 1st.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > After disassembly, the clutch and it's components all looked
>> >> > >> > great
>> >> > >> > but
>> >> > >> > the transmission input shaft was ratty looking - this jeep had
>> >> > >> > been
>> >> > >> > parked for 8-10 months before I bought it which probably
>> >> > >> > contributed to
>> >> > >> > the problem. It didn't do it at first, but rather appeared a
>> >> > >> > few
>> >> > >> > months
>> >> > >> > after I had been driving it. I separated the transmission from
>> >> > >> > the
>> >> > >> > engine, gently polished the input shaft up with some crocus
>> >> > >> > cloth
>> >> > >> > enough to get the surface rust off, regreased it, and it was
>> >> > >> > fine
>> >> > >> > since.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Spdloader wrote:
>> >> > >> >> 1994 Wrangler 2.5l 4cyl, with 5spd. Don't know which 5spd.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> It is terribly hard to downshift into 1st, 2nd or Reverse when
>> >> > >> >> stopped.
>> >> > >> >> It'll
>> >> > >> >> shift just fine if slightly rolling.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Upshifting is no problem.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> I'm definitely not a transmission mechanic.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Ideas? Have it rebuilt? Synchros? Shifter fork? Clutch Slave?
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> Spdloader
>> >> > >> >
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