Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
> >> > She really needs an automotive education.
> >> >
> >> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no longer
> >> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
> >> >
> >> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
> >> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total'
> >> > failure
> >> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
> >> >
> >> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the vehicle
> >> > has
> >> > only the emergency brake left.
> >> >
> >> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
> >> > Does the emergency brake work?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
> >> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop a
> >> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
> >>
> >> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency and
> >> using the Emergency Brake to park.
> >
> > Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
> > this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
> >
> > The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
> > 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
> >
>
> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away. If
> one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park, and it
> freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an emergency
> brake.

It is advertised as an emergency brake usually Jeff. That's why most
have separate drum brakes and cables still on even 4 wheel disk setups.
If the hydraulics fail, this separate cable and drum setup is supposed
to make you stop under control.

And do you know what? It actually works that way still even on my 86
CJ7!

I blew the front brake line in an emergency stop and the pedal went to
the floor on me. I used the 'emergency' brake to drive home on. I
first tied the handle so I didn't have to hold it and used it like a
foot brake. I didn't speed, took the side roads slow and didn't follow
anyone too close and got the mile or so home easily.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
> >> > She really needs an automotive education.
> >> >
> >> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no longer
> >> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
> >> >
> >> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
> >> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total'
> >> > failure
> >> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
> >> >
> >> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the vehicle
> >> > has
> >> > only the emergency brake left.
> >> >
> >> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
> >> > Does the emergency brake work?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
> >> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop a
> >> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
> >>
> >> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency and
> >> using the Emergency Brake to park.
> >
> > Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
> > this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
> >
> > The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
> > 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
> >
>
> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away. If
> one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park, and it
> freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an emergency
> brake.

It is advertised as an emergency brake usually Jeff. That's why most
have separate drum brakes and cables still on even 4 wheel disk setups.
If the hydraulics fail, this separate cable and drum setup is supposed
to make you stop under control.

And do you know what? It actually works that way still even on my 86
CJ7!

I blew the front brake line in an emergency stop and the pedal went to
the floor on me. I used the 'emergency' brake to drive home on. I
first tied the handle so I didn't have to hold it and used it like a
foot brake. I didn't speed, took the side roads slow and didn't follow
anyone too close and got the mile or so home easily.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Mike Romain

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
> > Jeff Strickland wrote:
> >>
> >> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
> >> > She really needs an automotive education.
> >> >
> >> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no longer
> >> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
> >> >
> >> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
> >> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total'
> >> > failure
> >> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
> >> >
> >> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the vehicle
> >> > has
> >> > only the emergency brake left.
> >> >
> >> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
> >> > Does the emergency brake work?
> >> >
> >>
> >> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
> >> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop a
> >> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
> >>
> >> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency and
> >> using the Emergency Brake to park.
> >
> > Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
> > this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
> >
> > The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
> > 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
> >
>
> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away. If
> one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park, and it
> freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an emergency
> brake.

It is advertised as an emergency brake usually Jeff. That's why most
have separate drum brakes and cables still on even 4 wheel disk setups.
If the hydraulics fail, this separate cable and drum setup is supposed
to make you stop under control.

And do you know what? It actually works that way still even on my 86
CJ7!

I blew the front brake line in an emergency stop and the pedal went to
the floor on me. I used the 'emergency' brake to drive home on. I
first tied the handle so I didn't have to hold it and used it like a
foot brake. I didn't speed, took the side roads slow and didn't follow
anyone too close and got the mile or so home easily.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > She really needs an automotive education.
>>>> >
>>>> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no
>>>> longer
>>>> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
>>>> >
>>>> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
>>>> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total' >
>>>> failure
>>>> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
>>>> >
>>>> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the
>>>> vehicle > has
>>>> > only the emergency brake left.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
>>>> > Does the emergency brake work?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
>>>> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop
>>>> a
>>>> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
>>>>
>>>> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency
>>>> and
>>>> using the Emergency Brake to park.
>>>
>>> Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
>>> this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
>>>
>>> The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
>>> 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away.
>> If one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park,
>> and it freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an
>> emergency brake.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

Agreed, but it hasn't been a problem for a very long time. AND, some moron
sued because they attempted to use the Emergency Brake in an emergency and
the emergency situation instantly became much different -- probably worse --
in the process. The argument was, "it was an emergency so I used the special
brake that was provided. The emergency should have become better (lessened)
but it became worse."

I know of NO automaker that has called it an emergency brake in 20+ years.
It is a parking brake.

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > She really needs an automotive education.
>>>> >
>>>> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no
>>>> longer
>>>> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
>>>> >
>>>> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
>>>> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total' >
>>>> failure
>>>> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
>>>> >
>>>> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the
>>>> vehicle > has
>>>> > only the emergency brake left.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
>>>> > Does the emergency brake work?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
>>>> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop
>>>> a
>>>> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
>>>>
>>>> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency
>>>> and
>>>> using the Emergency Brake to park.
>>>
>>> Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
>>> this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
>>>
>>> The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
>>> 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away.
>> If one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park,
>> and it freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an
>> emergency brake.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

Agreed, but it hasn't been a problem for a very long time. AND, some moron
sued because they attempted to use the Emergency Brake in an emergency and
the emergency situation instantly became much different -- probably worse --
in the process. The argument was, "it was an emergency so I used the special
brake that was provided. The emergency should have become better (lessened)
but it became worse."

I know of NO automaker that has called it an emergency brake in 20+ years.
It is a parking brake.

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:45670917.8F9BAF28@sympatico.ca...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:45663D58.5CD23DFB@sympatico.ca...
>>>> > She really needs an automotive education.
>>>> >
>>>> > When the Brake failure warning light comes on, the vehicle is no
>>>> longer
>>>> > safe for the road until it has been determined the failure.
>>>> >
>>>> > When one reservoir goes empty, it puts serious stress on the seal
>>>> > between the master cylinder chambers which can lead to a 'total' >
>>>> failure
>>>> > there 'very' soon after one goes dry.
>>>> >
>>>> > When this happens, the brake pedal goes to the floor and the
>>>> vehicle > has
>>>> > only the emergency brake left.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does she know how to stop a vehicle using only the emergency brake?
>>>> > Does the emergency brake work?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> It kills me to hear people cal this an Emergency Brake. It is more
>>>> accurately a Parking Brake. The question is, "does one know how to stop
>>>> a
>>>> vehicle using the parking brake?" And, "does the parking brake work?"
>>>>
>>>> There is a huge difference in using the Parking Brake in an emergency
>>>> and
>>>> using the Emergency Brake to park.
>>>
>>> Up here in Canada if you use the 'emergency' brake to 'park' with at
>>> this time of year, you will/might not be 'unparking' until spring.....
>>>
>>> The only fix is to be lifted and towed to a warm garage to let the
>>> 'parking' brake unthaw so it becomes an 'emergency' brake again.
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's true, but the name of the brake does not make the problem go away.
>> If one uses the parking brake to park OR the emerbgency brake to park,
>> and it freezes shut then life sucks. It is still a parking brake, NOT an
>> emergency brake.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

Agreed, but it hasn't been a problem for a very long time. AND, some moron
sued because they attempted to use the Emergency Brake in an emergency and
the emergency situation instantly became much different -- probably worse --
in the process. The argument was, "it was an emergency so I used the special
brake that was provided. The emergency should have become better (lessened)
but it became worse."

I know of NO automaker that has called it an emergency brake in 20+ years.
It is a parking brake.

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

A parking brakes is required by law to be a separate system from the service
brake system. It must be held activated by mechanical means. The means of
activation must be isolated from the service brake and used exclusively for
the operation of the parking brake. It is okay that the parking brake be
employed in an emergency, but that does not make it an emergency brake that
is used to park.



> As a matter of fact, I was unfortunate enough to have had to use the
> emergency brake to stop two different single master cylinder cars that
> blew out brake hoses. One minute there's brakes, next minute pedal to the
> floor just by looking at it. It was neither quick nor pleasant, but I DID
> eventually stop, using the emergency brake. (Make point to add fresh
> underwear to the latex gloves in the tool box).
>
> The service brake could be clamped down for parking much easier than
> designing a separate system. The point is, the brake actuation is separate
> from the service brakes for a reason, and that is for emergencies.
>

Well no. There are two systems, but that isn't the reason why.




> As for parking, well I don't bother with it much unless I'm on a steep
> hill.
>

I don't use my parking brake very often either.

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

A parking brakes is required by law to be a separate system from the service
brake system. It must be held activated by mechanical means. The means of
activation must be isolated from the service brake and used exclusively for
the operation of the parking brake. It is okay that the parking brake be
employed in an emergency, but that does not make it an emergency brake that
is used to park.



> As a matter of fact, I was unfortunate enough to have had to use the
> emergency brake to stop two different single master cylinder cars that
> blew out brake hoses. One minute there's brakes, next minute pedal to the
> floor just by looking at it. It was neither quick nor pleasant, but I DID
> eventually stop, using the emergency brake. (Make point to add fresh
> underwear to the latex gloves in the tool box).
>
> The service brake could be clamped down for parking much easier than
> designing a separate system. The point is, the brake actuation is separate
> from the service brakes for a reason, and that is for emergencies.
>

Well no. There are two systems, but that isn't the reason why.




> As for parking, well I don't bother with it much unless I'm on a steep
> hill.
>

I don't use my parking brake very often either.

Jeff Strickland

"DaveW" <spsffan@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:0aJ9h.6529$J5.2333@trnddc04...
>>
>
> I beg to differ Jeff. If it was simply a question of making a parking
> brake, a hook on the brake pedal would do just fine. But, the
> manufacturers wanted something that would provide braking action if the
> hydraulic system failed. This was a real problem before dual master
> cylinders.

A parking brakes is required by law to be a separate system from the service
brake system. It must be held activated by mechanical means. The means of
activation must be isolated from the service brake and used exclusively for
the operation of the parking brake. It is okay that the parking brake be
employed in an emergency, but that does not make it an emergency brake that
is used to park.



> As a matter of fact, I was unfortunate enough to have had to use the
> emergency brake to stop two different single master cylinder cars that
> blew out brake hoses. One minute there's brakes, next minute pedal to the
> floor just by looking at it. It was neither quick nor pleasant, but I DID
> eventually stop, using the emergency brake. (Make point to add fresh
> underwear to the latex gloves in the tool box).
>
> The service brake could be clamped down for parking much easier than
> designing a separate system. The point is, the brake actuation is separate
> from the service brakes for a reason, and that is for emergencies.
>

Well no. There are two systems, but that isn't the reason why.




> As for parking, well I don't bother with it much unless I'm on a steep
> hill.
>

I don't use my parking brake very often either.