L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

But they're not going collapse unless there's clogged filter at the
other end.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Apples<>oranges. When OEM's install Hesco's at the factory, you'll see metal
> intake tubes.

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

But they're not going collapse unless there's clogged filter at the
other end.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Apples<>oranges. When OEM's install Hesco's at the factory, you'll see metal
> intake tubes.

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III

But they're not going collapse unless there's clogged filter at the
other end.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
>
> Apples<>oranges. When OEM's install Hesco's at the factory, you'll see metal
> intake tubes.

Frank_v7.0

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> How does it compare with your old mileage, and how long before the new
> intake pays for itself?
>> Results on first tank: 254.4mi 10.950gal Wheels and tires 235/70x16 on
>> 16x7 steel wheels. This is on an otherwise stock '04 Wrangler X. Mostly
>> (90%) on paved roads running the a/c about half the time. I can live with
>> it :-)
>>
>> --
>> FRH
>
>
I was getting a hair over 20mpg and on a good day 21mpg. Easy driving on
mostly paved roads. With gas at $3 a gallon I will have probably brake
even in another 20k mi or so. And I plan to keep my '04 at much longer
than that.There is a slight but noticeable increase in power especially
in 5th gear. The only down side to the installation is that you have to
guide the dipstick back to its tube. Also I'm pretty sure that at
highway speeds (70mph) nothing will help a TJ get "good" mileage. :-)



--
FRH

Frank_v7.0

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> How does it compare with your old mileage, and how long before the new
> intake pays for itself?
>> Results on first tank: 254.4mi 10.950gal Wheels and tires 235/70x16 on
>> 16x7 steel wheels. This is on an otherwise stock '04 Wrangler X. Mostly
>> (90%) on paved roads running the a/c about half the time. I can live with
>> it :-)
>>
>> --
>> FRH
>
>
I was getting a hair over 20mpg and on a good day 21mpg. Easy driving on
mostly paved roads. With gas at $3 a gallon I will have probably brake
even in another 20k mi or so. And I plan to keep my '04 at much longer
than that.There is a slight but noticeable increase in power especially
in 5th gear. The only down side to the installation is that you have to
guide the dipstick back to its tube. Also I'm pretty sure that at
highway speeds (70mph) nothing will help a TJ get "good" mileage. :-)



--
FRH

Frank_v7.0

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> How does it compare with your old mileage, and how long before the new
> intake pays for itself?
>> Results on first tank: 254.4mi 10.950gal Wheels and tires 235/70x16 on
>> 16x7 steel wheels. This is on an otherwise stock '04 Wrangler X. Mostly
>> (90%) on paved roads running the a/c about half the time. I can live with
>> it :-)
>>
>> --
>> FRH
>
>
I was getting a hair over 20mpg and on a good day 21mpg. Easy driving on
mostly paved roads. With gas at $3 a gallon I will have probably brake
even in another 20k mi or so. And I plan to keep my '04 at much longer
than that.There is a slight but noticeable increase in power especially
in 5th gear. The only down side to the installation is that you have to
guide the dipstick back to its tube. Also I'm pretty sure that at
highway speeds (70mph) nothing will help a TJ get "good" mileage. :-)



--
FRH

Simon Juncal

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> I had a 93 xj, as well, yes it was softer plastic. I understand your logic
> but you lack empirical evidence.

And you've offered any? You're the one making unsupported claims, I've
not bothered making any performance claims because anyone with a search
engine and half a brain can find dyno numbers, reviews, comparisons etc.

> Which means a replacement "cold air induction" system would be even more of
> a waste of $$ on a TJ.

Assuming it's totally stock AND Assuming the stock plumbing is as
efficient as it can be from the OEM... There's plenty of empirical data
out there on the stock 4.0. Do your own research if you wish to. TJ's
have lots of aftermarket... Cam's, computer chips, throttle body
upgrades, larger injectors, and even turbo and SC kits. Any of these
will be complimented by intake plumbing that is as efficient as possible.

> I'll put it this way, perhaps they look good *and* improve performance
> somewhat, but they are better at looking good than making a significant
> performance increase.

Okay now we're getting somewhere.

> My point is, a lot of
> the aftermarket intake stuff, while some of it does improve performance
> incrementally, is designed primarily to lighten the consumer's wallet.

Not going to google up numbers but the CAI is usually considered a
pretty basic easy to do mod that has a good dollar to HP ratio. A cheap
CAI that gains 10 HP and costs $100 bucks, costs you $10 per HP... a
505 performance turbo kit for a 4.0 costs $3450.00 and gains 65hp, for a
cost of $53 dollars per pony, BEFORE it's installed.

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Simon Juncal

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> I had a 93 xj, as well, yes it was softer plastic. I understand your logic
> but you lack empirical evidence.

And you've offered any? You're the one making unsupported claims, I've
not bothered making any performance claims because anyone with a search
engine and half a brain can find dyno numbers, reviews, comparisons etc.

> Which means a replacement "cold air induction" system would be even more of
> a waste of $$ on a TJ.

Assuming it's totally stock AND Assuming the stock plumbing is as
efficient as it can be from the OEM... There's plenty of empirical data
out there on the stock 4.0. Do your own research if you wish to. TJ's
have lots of aftermarket... Cam's, computer chips, throttle body
upgrades, larger injectors, and even turbo and SC kits. Any of these
will be complimented by intake plumbing that is as efficient as possible.

> I'll put it this way, perhaps they look good *and* improve performance
> somewhat, but they are better at looking good than making a significant
> performance increase.

Okay now we're getting somewhere.

> My point is, a lot of
> the aftermarket intake stuff, while some of it does improve performance
> incrementally, is designed primarily to lighten the consumer's wallet.

Not going to google up numbers but the CAI is usually considered a
pretty basic easy to do mod that has a good dollar to HP ratio. A cheap
CAI that gains 10 HP and costs $100 bucks, costs you $10 per HP... a
505 performance turbo kit for a 4.0 costs $3450.00 and gains 65hp, for a
cost of $53 dollars per pony, BEFORE it's installed.

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Simon Juncal

Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
> I had a 93 xj, as well, yes it was softer plastic. I understand your logic
> but you lack empirical evidence.

And you've offered any? You're the one making unsupported claims, I've
not bothered making any performance claims because anyone with a search
engine and half a brain can find dyno numbers, reviews, comparisons etc.

> Which means a replacement "cold air induction" system would be even more of
> a waste of $$ on a TJ.

Assuming it's totally stock AND Assuming the stock plumbing is as
efficient as it can be from the OEM... There's plenty of empirical data
out there on the stock 4.0. Do your own research if you wish to. TJ's
have lots of aftermarket... Cam's, computer chips, throttle body
upgrades, larger injectors, and even turbo and SC kits. Any of these
will be complimented by intake plumbing that is as efficient as possible.

> I'll put it this way, perhaps they look good *and* improve performance
> somewhat, but they are better at looking good than making a significant
> performance increase.

Okay now we're getting somewhere.

> My point is, a lot of
> the aftermarket intake stuff, while some of it does improve performance
> incrementally, is designed primarily to lighten the consumer's wallet.

Not going to google up numbers but the CAI is usually considered a
pretty basic easy to do mod that has a good dollar to HP ratio. A cheap
CAI that gains 10 HP and costs $100 bucks, costs you $10 per HP... a
505 performance turbo kit for a 4.0 costs $3450.00 and gains 65hp, for a
cost of $53 dollars per pony, BEFORE it's installed.

--
Simon
"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein