Mike Romain

Someone mentioned that the thermostat is supposed to go in 'backwards'
on this engines setup??? If the installer isn't aware of this.....

Inside heat can be deceiving. Most engines have a thermostat bypass so
hot coolant can get to the heater core before the thermostat opens.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Carl wrote:
> Good point. Do you have heat? If you do, it's the radiator.
>
> Carl
>
> "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwdoc1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:DdDqh.16038$Gw4.14114@newssvr23.news.prodigy. net...
>> Wouldn't a bad water pump that causes a "NO-FLOW" situation also cause no
>> heat in the cabin?
>> James are you freezing inside of the Jeep or do you have fantastic heat?
>>
>> The answer should help you guess if it is the water pump causing your
>> problem(s) or the thermostat and/or radiator.
>> Whoever installed the thermostat should check your system out for you!
>> ;-)
>>
>> If you are getting good heat inside the Jeep, I guess I would start with
>> another thermostat also. Make sure it is a good brand!!
>>
>> I worked on a vehicle that had a defective oil cooler. This allowed oil
>> into the coolant system and everything turned into a very thick paste-like
>> crud. It clogged up the radiator hoses, heater core and the radiator
>> causing the engine to overheat. I don't think that this is your problem.
>> 8^o
>> http://vwdoc1.tripod.com/oil_cooler_failure.html
>>
>> good luck!
>> later,
>> dave AKA vwdoc1
>>
>>
>
>

Doug

James wrote:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.

Mike Roman responded:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.


I still think it would be good to verify the temp guage is really showing
the correct temp. Where is the temp sensor that the guage could read >200
and the coolant not burn a finger?

But then, what do I know? I have not worked on my on vehicles for years...

Regards,
doug


"Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:isqdnZN7p-txfDfYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> James,
>
> My money is on a bad water pump, thermostat, or clogged radiator. No
> coolant flow in the radiator at idle when warm could only be one of the
> three. Pull the upper and lower rad hoses and flush it with a garden hose,
> or just pull the radiator and have it cleaned and re-cored. While it's off
> replace the water pump, and thermostat (yes, do it again), flush the
> entire system and watch your cooling troubles go away.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Carl
>
>
> "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
> news:X82dnXCaIdETmTTYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>I posted this several weeks ago, and got a lot of thoughtful replies. No
>> remedy yet, this is just an update.
>>
>> Last week, I drove home from vacation, a 500 mile trip. I noticed
>> repeatedly that the temp at 65 mph would be in the 205-210 range, but
>> five
>> minutes after I go up to 75 mph, the temp would increase to around 225.
>> I
>> did this test over and over, and got the same results.
>>
>> Someone suggested that to check the (new) thermostat, to take the
>> pressure
>> cap off when the engine is cold, start the engine, and see if there is
>> water
>> flow (I assume there should be flow after the thermostat opens up). I
>> did
>> this test, while the outside temp is 72 degrees. From the first
>> engine
>> start, I saw no water flow. None.
>>
>> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and
>> stayed
>> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
>> running
>> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
>> all
>> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>>
>> Should I have seen water flow after the temp went to 205, and the
>> engine
>> ran for 45 mins ??
>>
>>
>> Any further comments will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> --James--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> This is a V-8, 120 K miles. It usually runs around 200-210
>>> degrees. During last six months or so, it will go up the 235 degrees
>>> when
>>> traveling over 70 mph. It will also do this when going up a medium
>>> incline, even at very slow speed.
>>>
>>> It stays 100% normal at slow speeds, and at idle, such as at a traffic
>>> light.
>>>
>>> Fan clutch was replaced fairly recently, that DID relate to heating
>>> some
>>> at idle.
>>>
>>> I am thinking either I need radiator work or a new radiator OR that I
>>> may have a bad thermostat. I suppose I could also have a defective
>>> water pump at high speeds, but that wouldn't explain why it overheats on
>>> medium inclines even at slow speeds.
>>>
>>> BTW, some folks may say 235 degrees is normal under some circumstances.
>>> I
>>> can assure you that this is NOT normal, as I have driven this car for
>>> six
>>> years and I know how it performs.
>>>
>>> What is most likely culprit? Themostat/Water Pump/Radiator
>>>
>>> If it is radiator, is it worth it to have it re-rodded, or is it best
>>> just
>>> to install a new radiator?
>>>
>>> As a non-mechanic, are these any tests I can do to narrow it down more?
>>> (Water pump does not leak).
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for any tips !!!
>>>
>>> --James--
>>
>>
>
>

Doug

James wrote:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.

Mike Roman responded:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.


I still think it would be good to verify the temp guage is really showing
the correct temp. Where is the temp sensor that the guage could read >200
and the coolant not burn a finger?

But then, what do I know? I have not worked on my on vehicles for years...

Regards,
doug


"Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:isqdnZN7p-txfDfYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> James,
>
> My money is on a bad water pump, thermostat, or clogged radiator. No
> coolant flow in the radiator at idle when warm could only be one of the
> three. Pull the upper and lower rad hoses and flush it with a garden hose,
> or just pull the radiator and have it cleaned and re-cored. While it's off
> replace the water pump, and thermostat (yes, do it again), flush the
> entire system and watch your cooling troubles go away.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Carl
>
>
> "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
> news:X82dnXCaIdETmTTYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>I posted this several weeks ago, and got a lot of thoughtful replies. No
>> remedy yet, this is just an update.
>>
>> Last week, I drove home from vacation, a 500 mile trip. I noticed
>> repeatedly that the temp at 65 mph would be in the 205-210 range, but
>> five
>> minutes after I go up to 75 mph, the temp would increase to around 225.
>> I
>> did this test over and over, and got the same results.
>>
>> Someone suggested that to check the (new) thermostat, to take the
>> pressure
>> cap off when the engine is cold, start the engine, and see if there is
>> water
>> flow (I assume there should be flow after the thermostat opens up). I
>> did
>> this test, while the outside temp is 72 degrees. From the first
>> engine
>> start, I saw no water flow. None.
>>
>> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and
>> stayed
>> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
>> running
>> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
>> all
>> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>>
>> Should I have seen water flow after the temp went to 205, and the
>> engine
>> ran for 45 mins ??
>>
>>
>> Any further comments will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> --James--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> This is a V-8, 120 K miles. It usually runs around 200-210
>>> degrees. During last six months or so, it will go up the 235 degrees
>>> when
>>> traveling over 70 mph. It will also do this when going up a medium
>>> incline, even at very slow speed.
>>>
>>> It stays 100% normal at slow speeds, and at idle, such as at a traffic
>>> light.
>>>
>>> Fan clutch was replaced fairly recently, that DID relate to heating
>>> some
>>> at idle.
>>>
>>> I am thinking either I need radiator work or a new radiator OR that I
>>> may have a bad thermostat. I suppose I could also have a defective
>>> water pump at high speeds, but that wouldn't explain why it overheats on
>>> medium inclines even at slow speeds.
>>>
>>> BTW, some folks may say 235 degrees is normal under some circumstances.
>>> I
>>> can assure you that this is NOT normal, as I have driven this car for
>>> six
>>> years and I know how it performs.
>>>
>>> What is most likely culprit? Themostat/Water Pump/Radiator
>>>
>>> If it is radiator, is it worth it to have it re-rodded, or is it best
>>> just
>>> to install a new radiator?
>>>
>>> As a non-mechanic, are these any tests I can do to narrow it down more?
>>> (Water pump does not leak).
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for any tips !!!
>>>
>>> --James--
>>
>>
>
>

Doug

James wrote:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.

Mike Roman responded:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.


I still think it would be good to verify the temp guage is really showing
the correct temp. Where is the temp sensor that the guage could read >200
and the coolant not burn a finger?

But then, what do I know? I have not worked on my on vehicles for years...

Regards,
doug


"Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:isqdnZN7p-txfDfYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> James,
>
> My money is on a bad water pump, thermostat, or clogged radiator. No
> coolant flow in the radiator at idle when warm could only be one of the
> three. Pull the upper and lower rad hoses and flush it with a garden hose,
> or just pull the radiator and have it cleaned and re-cored. While it's off
> replace the water pump, and thermostat (yes, do it again), flush the
> entire system and watch your cooling troubles go away.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Carl
>
>
> "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
> news:X82dnXCaIdETmTTYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>I posted this several weeks ago, and got a lot of thoughtful replies. No
>> remedy yet, this is just an update.
>>
>> Last week, I drove home from vacation, a 500 mile trip. I noticed
>> repeatedly that the temp at 65 mph would be in the 205-210 range, but
>> five
>> minutes after I go up to 75 mph, the temp would increase to around 225.
>> I
>> did this test over and over, and got the same results.
>>
>> Someone suggested that to check the (new) thermostat, to take the
>> pressure
>> cap off when the engine is cold, start the engine, and see if there is
>> water
>> flow (I assume there should be flow after the thermostat opens up). I
>> did
>> this test, while the outside temp is 72 degrees. From the first
>> engine
>> start, I saw no water flow. None.
>>
>> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and
>> stayed
>> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
>> running
>> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
>> all
>> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>>
>> Should I have seen water flow after the temp went to 205, and the
>> engine
>> ran for 45 mins ??
>>
>>
>> Any further comments will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> --James--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> This is a V-8, 120 K miles. It usually runs around 200-210
>>> degrees. During last six months or so, it will go up the 235 degrees
>>> when
>>> traveling over 70 mph. It will also do this when going up a medium
>>> incline, even at very slow speed.
>>>
>>> It stays 100% normal at slow speeds, and at idle, such as at a traffic
>>> light.
>>>
>>> Fan clutch was replaced fairly recently, that DID relate to heating
>>> some
>>> at idle.
>>>
>>> I am thinking either I need radiator work or a new radiator OR that I
>>> may have a bad thermostat. I suppose I could also have a defective
>>> water pump at high speeds, but that wouldn't explain why it overheats on
>>> medium inclines even at slow speeds.
>>>
>>> BTW, some folks may say 235 degrees is normal under some circumstances.
>>> I
>>> can assure you that this is NOT normal, as I have driven this car for
>>> six
>>> years and I know how it performs.
>>>
>>> What is most likely culprit? Themostat/Water Pump/Radiator
>>>
>>> If it is radiator, is it worth it to have it re-rodded, or is it best
>>> just
>>> to install a new radiator?
>>>
>>> As a non-mechanic, are these any tests I can do to narrow it down more?
>>> (Water pump does not leak).
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for any tips !!!
>>>
>>> --James--
>>
>>
>
>

Doug

James wrote:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.

Mike Roman responded:
I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of running
at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at all
hot. Just warm. It never got hot.


I still think it would be good to verify the temp guage is really showing
the correct temp. Where is the temp sensor that the guage could read >200
and the coolant not burn a finger?

But then, what do I know? I have not worked on my on vehicles for years...

Regards,
doug


"Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:isqdnZN7p-txfDfYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
> James,
>
> My money is on a bad water pump, thermostat, or clogged radiator. No
> coolant flow in the radiator at idle when warm could only be one of the
> three. Pull the upper and lower rad hoses and flush it with a garden hose,
> or just pull the radiator and have it cleaned and re-cored. While it's off
> replace the water pump, and thermostat (yes, do it again), flush the
> entire system and watch your cooling troubles go away.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Carl
>
>
> "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
> news:X82dnXCaIdETmTTYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>I posted this several weeks ago, and got a lot of thoughtful replies. No
>> remedy yet, this is just an update.
>>
>> Last week, I drove home from vacation, a 500 mile trip. I noticed
>> repeatedly that the temp at 65 mph would be in the 205-210 range, but
>> five
>> minutes after I go up to 75 mph, the temp would increase to around 225.
>> I
>> did this test over and over, and got the same results.
>>
>> Someone suggested that to check the (new) thermostat, to take the
>> pressure
>> cap off when the engine is cold, start the engine, and see if there is
>> water
>> flow (I assume there should be flow after the thermostat opens up). I
>> did
>> this test, while the outside temp is 72 degrees. From the first
>> engine
>> start, I saw no water flow. None.
>>
>> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and
>> stayed
>> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
>> running
>> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
>> all
>> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>>
>> Should I have seen water flow after the temp went to 205, and the
>> engine
>> ran for 45 mins ??
>>
>>
>> Any further comments will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> --James--
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> This is a V-8, 120 K miles. It usually runs around 200-210
>>> degrees. During last six months or so, it will go up the 235 degrees
>>> when
>>> traveling over 70 mph. It will also do this when going up a medium
>>> incline, even at very slow speed.
>>>
>>> It stays 100% normal at slow speeds, and at idle, such as at a traffic
>>> light.
>>>
>>> Fan clutch was replaced fairly recently, that DID relate to heating
>>> some
>>> at idle.
>>>
>>> I am thinking either I need radiator work or a new radiator OR that I
>>> may have a bad thermostat. I suppose I could also have a defective
>>> water pump at high speeds, but that wouldn't explain why it overheats on
>>> medium inclines even at slow speeds.
>>>
>>> BTW, some folks may say 235 degrees is normal under some circumstances.
>>> I
>>> can assure you that this is NOT normal, as I have driven this car for
>>> six
>>> years and I know how it performs.
>>>
>>> What is most likely culprit? Themostat/Water Pump/Radiator
>>>
>>> If it is radiator, is it worth it to have it re-rodded, or is it best
>>> just
>>> to install a new radiator?
>>>
>>> As a non-mechanic, are these any tests I can do to narrow it down more?
>>> (Water pump does not leak).
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for any tips !!!
>>>
>>> --James--
>>
>>
>
>

SnoMan

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:56:00 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Most engines have a thermostat bypass so
>hot coolant can get to the heater core before the thermostat opens.


I am not aware of any that do not bypass Tstat for heater. It would be
kinda silly not to.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:56:00 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Most engines have a thermostat bypass so
>hot coolant can get to the heater core before the thermostat opens.


I am not aware of any that do not bypass Tstat for heater. It would be
kinda silly not to.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:56:00 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Most engines have a thermostat bypass so
>hot coolant can get to the heater core before the thermostat opens.


I am not aware of any that do not bypass Tstat for heater. It would be
kinda silly not to.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

SnoMan

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:56:00 -0500, Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> Most engines have a thermostat bypass so
>hot coolant can get to the heater core before the thermostat opens.


I am not aware of any that do not bypass Tstat for heater. It would be
kinda silly not to.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com

Carl

No flow is only caused by four things. Clogged radiator, clogged block, bad
t-stat, bad water pump. Tell us if the heat is working. If it works well,
it's the radiator.

Carl


"Doug" <nono@nono.com> wrote in message
news:wJidnd5To_1CITbYnZ2dnUVZ_tWhnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
> James wrote:
> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
> running
> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
> all
> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>
> Mike Roman responded:
> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and stayed
> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
> running
> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
> all
> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>
>
> I still think it would be good to verify the temp guage is really showing
> the correct temp. Where is the temp sensor that the guage could read >200
> and the coolant not burn a finger?
>
> But then, what do I know? I have not worked on my on vehicles for years...
>
> Regards,
> doug
>
>
> "Carl" <carlsaiyed@hotmailREMOVE.com> wrote in message
> news:isqdnZN7p-txfDfYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> James,
>>
>> My money is on a bad water pump, thermostat, or clogged radiator. No
>> coolant flow in the radiator at idle when warm could only be one of the
>> three. Pull the upper and lower rad hoses and flush it with a garden
>> hose, or just pull the radiator and have it cleaned and re-cored. While
>> it's off replace the water pump, and thermostat (yes, do it again), flush
>> the entire system and watch your cooling troubles go away.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
>> news:X82dnXCaIdETmTTYnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com. ..
>>>I posted this several weeks ago, and got a lot of thoughtful replies.
>>>No
>>> remedy yet, this is just an update.
>>>
>>> Last week, I drove home from vacation, a 500 mile trip. I noticed
>>> repeatedly that the temp at 65 mph would be in the 205-210 range, but
>>> five
>>> minutes after I go up to 75 mph, the temp would increase to around 225.
>>> I
>>> did this test over and over, and got the same results.
>>>
>>> Someone suggested that to check the (new) thermostat, to take the
>>> pressure
>>> cap off when the engine is cold, start the engine, and see if there is
>>> water
>>> flow (I assume there should be flow after the thermostat opens up). I
>>> did
>>> this test, while the outside temp is 72 degrees. From the first
>>> engine
>>> start, I saw no water flow. None.
>>>
>>> I let the engine run for 45 minutes. The gauge went to 205 and
>>> stayed
>>> there. At no time did I see a water flow, even after 45 minutes of
>>> running
>>> at idle. I put my finger in the water and it was **warm** but not at
>>> all
>>> hot. Just warm. It never got hot.
>>>
>>> Should I have seen water flow after the temp went to 205, and the
>>> engine
>>> ran for 45 mins ??
>>>
>>>
>>> Any further comments will be appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --James--
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------------------------
>>>
>>> This is a V-8, 120 K miles. It usually runs around 200-210
>>>> degrees. During last six months or so, it will go up the 235 degrees
>>>> when
>>>> traveling over 70 mph. It will also do this when going up a medium
>>>> incline, even at very slow speed.
>>>>
>>>> It stays 100% normal at slow speeds, and at idle, such as at a traffic
>>>> light.
>>>>
>>>> Fan clutch was replaced fairly recently, that DID relate to heating
>>>> some
>>>> at idle.
>>>>
>>>> I am thinking either I need radiator work or a new radiator OR that I
>>>> may have a bad thermostat. I suppose I could also have a defective
>>>> water pump at high speeds, but that wouldn't explain why it overheats
>>>> on
>>>> medium inclines even at slow speeds.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, some folks may say 235 degrees is normal under some
>>>> circumstances. I
>>>> can assure you that this is NOT normal, as I have driven this car for
>>>> six
>>>> years and I know how it performs.
>>>>
>>>> What is most likely culprit? Themostat/Water Pump/Radiator
>>>>
>>>> If it is radiator, is it worth it to have it re-rodded, or is it best
>>>> just
>>>> to install a new radiator?
>>>>
>>>> As a non-mechanic, are these any tests I can do to narrow it down more?
>>>> (Water pump does not leak).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any tips !!!
>>>>
>>>> --James--
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>