lambeth65@earthlink.net

Jerry, I do have the Dana 300, but I have custom unlockable hubs in
the rear. I had assumed I should leave all 4 hubs locked in, however,
in order to splash lubrication around when the wheels turned. However,
maybe I'm mistaken... If I unlock them, would it eliminate the
problem you describe?

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?





Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.

lambeth65@earthlink.net

Jerry, I do have the Dana 300, but I have custom unlockable hubs in
the rear. I had assumed I should leave all 4 hubs locked in, however,
in order to splash lubrication around when the wheels turned. However,
maybe I'm mistaken... If I unlock them, would it eliminate the
problem you describe?

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?





Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.

RoyJ

> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

When you flat tow the Jeep (or anything else) the actual steeriing
mechanics gets a little wierd. When the tow vehicle makes a turn the tow
bar transfers a sideways force to the Jeep. If the Jeep has proper
caster and alignment, it will want to continue in a straight line. The
tow bar force causes the wheels to turn and the steering wheel to turn.

This sideways push on the tow vehicle from the flat tow is way more than
the equivilent load from a trailer. Picture going down the road at 60
mph, need for a quick lane change. With a trailer you have the momentum
to deal with. With a flat tow you have both the momentum AND the side
push from the Jeep tires and suspension trying to push your back end
around. On a wet road this is good for a wild ride.

On any trailer that is suitable for a Jeep (over 3000GVW) you will
almost cetainly have trailer brakes. Were you planning on hooking up the
brakes on the Jeep to be integrated with your tow vehicle? It can be
done but it is not easy or cheap.

4400 pounds for a CJ sounds a bit on the high side unless you have huge
tires, winch, rock bumpers, extra gas, etc etc. Typical 16' tandem axle
car hauler sold around here weighs about 1400-1600 pounds. But you
certainly would be up near 6000 pounds. So your choice is to flat tow
with no trailer brakes and some additional handling issues or trailer
with a substantial overload and brakes. Basic no win situation but I'd
opt for the extra brakes on the trailer.

In my case, I drive my YJ to where ever I'm wheeling, usually around 150
miles each way. But I do have a heavy duty flat tow towing bar that
bolts in place of my "D" ring shackles. Strictly for getting it home the
day I blow an engine, tranny (Puegot 5sp!), or transfer case. Never used
it (knock on wood!!!!) I'd be pushing my tow vehicle limit pretty hard.
But in that case, I'd probably talk to my buddy with a 1 ton dually Chev
into doing the actual retrieval run.






>
>
>
>
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>
>
>>since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
>
> in
>
>>neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
>
> to
>
>>flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>
>
>>neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>>
>
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
> with
> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so
>
> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
> horsepower
> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.
>

RoyJ

> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

When you flat tow the Jeep (or anything else) the actual steeriing
mechanics gets a little wierd. When the tow vehicle makes a turn the tow
bar transfers a sideways force to the Jeep. If the Jeep has proper
caster and alignment, it will want to continue in a straight line. The
tow bar force causes the wheels to turn and the steering wheel to turn.

This sideways push on the tow vehicle from the flat tow is way more than
the equivilent load from a trailer. Picture going down the road at 60
mph, need for a quick lane change. With a trailer you have the momentum
to deal with. With a flat tow you have both the momentum AND the side
push from the Jeep tires and suspension trying to push your back end
around. On a wet road this is good for a wild ride.

On any trailer that is suitable for a Jeep (over 3000GVW) you will
almost cetainly have trailer brakes. Were you planning on hooking up the
brakes on the Jeep to be integrated with your tow vehicle? It can be
done but it is not easy or cheap.

4400 pounds for a CJ sounds a bit on the high side unless you have huge
tires, winch, rock bumpers, extra gas, etc etc. Typical 16' tandem axle
car hauler sold around here weighs about 1400-1600 pounds. But you
certainly would be up near 6000 pounds. So your choice is to flat tow
with no trailer brakes and some additional handling issues or trailer
with a substantial overload and brakes. Basic no win situation but I'd
opt for the extra brakes on the trailer.

In my case, I drive my YJ to where ever I'm wheeling, usually around 150
miles each way. But I do have a heavy duty flat tow towing bar that
bolts in place of my "D" ring shackles. Strictly for getting it home the
day I blow an engine, tranny (Puegot 5sp!), or transfer case. Never used
it (knock on wood!!!!) I'd be pushing my tow vehicle limit pretty hard.
But in that case, I'd probably talk to my buddy with a 1 ton dually Chev
into doing the actual retrieval run.






>
>
>
>
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>
>
>>since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
>
> in
>
>>neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
>
> to
>
>>flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>
>
>>neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>>
>
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
> with
> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so
>
> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
> horsepower
> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.
>

RoyJ

> RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
> trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
> be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
> trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

When you flat tow the Jeep (or anything else) the actual steeriing
mechanics gets a little wierd. When the tow vehicle makes a turn the tow
bar transfers a sideways force to the Jeep. If the Jeep has proper
caster and alignment, it will want to continue in a straight line. The
tow bar force causes the wheels to turn and the steering wheel to turn.

This sideways push on the tow vehicle from the flat tow is way more than
the equivilent load from a trailer. Picture going down the road at 60
mph, need for a quick lane change. With a trailer you have the momentum
to deal with. With a flat tow you have both the momentum AND the side
push from the Jeep tires and suspension trying to push your back end
around. On a wet road this is good for a wild ride.

On any trailer that is suitable for a Jeep (over 3000GVW) you will
almost cetainly have trailer brakes. Were you planning on hooking up the
brakes on the Jeep to be integrated with your tow vehicle? It can be
done but it is not easy or cheap.

4400 pounds for a CJ sounds a bit on the high side unless you have huge
tires, winch, rock bumpers, extra gas, etc etc. Typical 16' tandem axle
car hauler sold around here weighs about 1400-1600 pounds. But you
certainly would be up near 6000 pounds. So your choice is to flat tow
with no trailer brakes and some additional handling issues or trailer
with a substantial overload and brakes. Basic no win situation but I'd
opt for the extra brakes on the trailer.

In my case, I drive my YJ to where ever I'm wheeling, usually around 150
miles each way. But I do have a heavy duty flat tow towing bar that
bolts in place of my "D" ring shackles. Strictly for getting it home the
day I blow an engine, tranny (Puegot 5sp!), or transfer case. Never used
it (knock on wood!!!!) I'd be pushing my tow vehicle limit pretty hard.
But in that case, I'd probably talk to my buddy with a 1 ton dually Chev
into doing the actual retrieval run.






>
>
>
>
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>>If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it
>
>
>>since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
>
> in
>
>>neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
>
> to
>
>>flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in
>
>
>>neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>>
>
>
> RoyJ wrote:
>
> as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
> with
> a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so
>
> the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
> horsepower
> and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.
>

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1106972095.010906.127300@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.




Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1106972095.010906.127300@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.




Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.

Matt Macchiarolo

<lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1106972095.010906.127300@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...

RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?

A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.




Jerry Bransford wrote:
> If your CJ has the Dana 300, it's really not advisable to flat-tow it

> since there is no internal lubrication for the rear bearing when it's
in
> neutral. If it's a Dana 20 or Quadratrac, I can't positively say how
to
> flat tow it but the Dana 20, it's likely that the t-case should be in

> neutral and the tranny should be in gear.
>

RoyJ wrote:

as much as I shouldn't say it, if you are overloaded at 4800- pounds
with
a trailer, you will be way overloaded with 3600 pounds flat -towing so

the trailer would be better. Flat towing needs a bit less in-
horsepower
and braking but way more in stability to keep the CJ under c-ontrol.

Dick

The rules have changed a lot in the last few years, and not all states
and providences are the same. In general, however, anything you tow
that weighs more than 1,500 lbs. total needs auxiliary brakes.
Doesn't matter if you flat tow or put it on a trailer. Check the
requirement in the state(s) where you plan to tow.

----


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:11:43 -0500, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

>
><lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:1106972095.010906.127300@f14g2000cwb.googleg roups.com...
>
>RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>
>A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.

Dick

The rules have changed a lot in the last few years, and not all states
and providences are the same. In general, however, anything you tow
that weighs more than 1,500 lbs. total needs auxiliary brakes.
Doesn't matter if you flat tow or put it on a trailer. Check the
requirement in the state(s) where you plan to tow.

----


On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 09:11:43 -0500, "Matt Macchiarolo"
<matt@nospamplease.com> wrote:

>
><lambeth65@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:1106972095.010906.127300@f14g2000cwb.googleg roups.com...
>
>RoyJ - Not sure I follow your logic. The CJ weighs about 4400 lbs. A
>trailer would add at least 1000 lbs (probably closer to 2000,) so I'd
>be way over my rated 4800lb towing capacity. Why would an overweight
>trailer be any safer/more stable than an acceptably weighted CJ?
>
>A trailer would have brakes. Flat towing does not.