Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
OP's idea.

Earle

"nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
....
>
> I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> wheel should be off the ground.
>
> There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.
>
>

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
OP's idea.

Earle

"nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
....
>
> I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> wheel should be off the ground.
>
> There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.
>
>

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
OP's idea.

Earle

"nrs" <neale_rs@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
....
>
> I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> wheel should be off the ground.
>
> There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.
>
>

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

On Feb 6, 6:39 pm, "Earle Horton" <a...@gracioso.usa> wrote:
> It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
> with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
> the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
> sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
> mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
> newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
> tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
> newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
> never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
> OP's idea.
>
> Earle
>
> "nrs" <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> > driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> > connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> > driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> > (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> > eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> > wheel should be off the ground.
>
> > There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> > with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Makes sense, if they locked together towed TJ's would be trash by now.

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

On Feb 6, 6:39 pm, "Earle Horton" <a...@gracioso.usa> wrote:
> It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
> with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
> the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
> sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
> mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
> newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
> tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
> newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
> never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
> OP's idea.
>
> Earle
>
> "nrs" <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> > driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> > connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> > driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> > (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> > eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> > wheel should be off the ground.
>
> > There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> > with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Makes sense, if they locked together towed TJ's would be trash by now.

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

On Feb 6, 6:39 pm, "Earle Horton" <a...@gracioso.usa> wrote:
> It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
> with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
> the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
> sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
> mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
> newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
> tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
> newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
> never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
> OP's idea.
>
> Earle
>
> "nrs" <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> > driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> > connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> > driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> > (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> > eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> > wheel should be off the ground.
>
> > There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> > with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Makes sense, if they locked together towed TJ's would be trash by now.

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

On Feb 6, 6:39 pm, "Earle Horton" <a...@gracioso.usa> wrote:
> It doesn't matter what the cause is. If the front driveshaft won't turn
> with the transfer case in neutral, then you have problems. I always have
> the engine running when I shift the transfer case into neutral, because
> sometimes you have to move the vehicle a little bit to get the gears to
> mesh, and because I know about the vacuum disconnect I guess. Note that the
> newer models don't have a front axle disconnect, and that you can still flat
> tow them if the transfer case has a neutral. I am talking about the TJs,
> newer Cherokees, GJs, etc. I am only going to do the check because you
> never know about things, not because I believe that there is anything to the
> OP's idea.
>
> Earle
>
> "nrs" <neale...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1170805228.075242.150940@k78g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think you still need to lift one tire to do the check to know if the
> > driveshafts lock together. For instance, if the front axle is still
> > connected with the engine off (both front on the ground), then the
> > driveshft will not turn with the TC in N. This would make me think
> > (falsely) that the driveshafts are locked together. In order to
> > eliminate the posibility that the front axle is connected, one front
> > wheel should be off the ground.
>
> > There are really two things to check: 1) does the axle stay connected
> > with the engine off, and 2) do the driveshafts lock together in N.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Makes sense, if they locked together towed TJ's would be trash by now.

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the t-case
in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the rear
drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the rear?


"L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
> That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
> appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this, by
> simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they don't
> free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I don't
> believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
> differentials.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> transfer case.
>>
>> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> the backlash is eliminated.
>>
>> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> the transfer case.
>>
>> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>>
>> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>>
>> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>>
>> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>>
>> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>>
>> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> is in.
>>
>> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> you set it.
>>
>> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>>
>> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>>
>> Comments and questions are welcome.
>>
>> Your mileage may vary.
>> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> Atlanta, Georgia
>>
>
>

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the t-case
in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the rear
drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the rear?


"L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
> That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
> appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this, by
> simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they don't
> free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I don't
> believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
> differentials.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> transfer case.
>>
>> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> the backlash is eliminated.
>>
>> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> the transfer case.
>>
>> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>>
>> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>>
>> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>>
>> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>>
>> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>>
>> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> is in.
>>
>> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> you set it.
>>
>> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>>
>> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>>
>> Comments and questions are welcome.
>>
>> Your mileage may vary.
>> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> Atlanta, Georgia
>>
>
>

Re: Flat Tow Wrangler YJ (Informational - Long)
 

OK, so with my '84 CJ, AMC 20, Dana 300, and NV4500, I should put the t-case
in neutral and put the tranny in a gear. Do I need to disconnect the rear
drive shaft? Or, what is the downside of putting locking hubs on the rear?


"L.W. (Bill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:52scpuF1o2nm0U1@mid.individual.net...
> That's true with the Dana 20 and 300 with only one lever. I would
> appreciate it is someone with New Process transfer would confirm this, by
> simple putting theirs in neutral and jack up a front wheel, if they don't
> free wheeling hubs and see if you can turn the front driveshaft. I don't
> believe it's true, because this would quickly destroy one of the
> differentials.
> God Bless America, Bill 0|||||||0
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> <edh3007@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1170785062.593064.102050@v33g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
>> I have a 1991 Jeep Wrangler YJ with the 2.5L four-cylinder and stock
>> five speed manual transmission. I assume it has the standard NP-231
>> transfer case.
>>
>> Although I have successfully flat-towed my YJ (maximum of about 400
>> miles one-way and then return about a week later), I've recently
>> learned that the NP-231 (at least of this era) does not have a "true"
>> neutral position. Instead, while it does uncouple the transmission
>> from the transfer case, it also couples the front and rear outputs
>> together. If the front axle is engaged this causes gear backlash with
>> the potential to destroy the transfer case. If the Center Axle
>> Disconnect (CAD) on the front axle is disconnected (disengaged?), then
>> the backlash is eliminated.
>>
>> The problem is that the vacuum operated CAD stays in the last position
>> it was put in. If you are preparing your YJ for flat towing and you
>> start the engine, the moment you shift the transfer case from 2WD to
>> Neutral the vacuum CAD engages the front axle. There you are with the
>> outputs of the transfer case locked together and the front axle live
>> instead of free-wheeling. Leaving you with the potential of blowing up
>> the transfer case.
>>
>> The standard way to disengage the CAD under normal conditions (i.e.
>> you've been in 4WD and are now ready to resume normal 2WD operation)
>> is to place the transfer case into 2WD and then put the transmission
>> into reverse and back up several feet. This puts the front axle back
>> into free-wheeling mode (assuming everything is working properly), and
>> you can put the transmission into normal gear and drive off.
>>
>> If you know the CAD is in this state then you can prepare for towing
>> simply by putting the transfer case into neutral without starting the
>> engine (no vacuum). Go ahead and put the transmission into neutral,
>> hook up to your tow vehicle and go. Some people recommend that you
>> leave the transmission in gear while towing. Since you have
>> disconnected the transmission when you put the transfer case in
>> neutral, this should not be necessary. Further, if the transmission is
>> in gear and the transfer case is accidently engaged (by a severe bump
>> maybe?) there will be bad consequences. You don't have to worry about
>> the transfer case lubrication because the rear output (which is
>> engaged) also drives the internal oil pump. As long as the CAD is
>> disengaged you are ready to tow.
>>
>> Apparently when I've towed my YJ I been fortunate in that a)I
>> typically back in to park, therefore I've left the jeep with the CAD
>> disengaged and b)I normally don't have any reason to start the jeep
>> prior to putting the transfer case into neutral before hooking it up
>> to be towed. Since I didn't understand what I was doing, I could very
>> easily have destroyed my transfer case without knowing why.
>>
>> Although I am comfortable with this, knowing how things work, there
>> are alternatives I discovered as I researched this issue.
>>
>> 1)Assuming that the CAD is already disengaged, you can just disconnect
>> the vacuum line from the CAD box. You'd be fine to start your engine
>> and move the jeep to the towing vehicle, hook up, put the transfer
>> case and transmission in neutral and go.
>>
>> 2)Install and use a Posi-Lock device instead of the vacuum CAD. Since
>> you control the front axle lock by cable, you should know the state it
>> is in.
>>
>> 3)Install and use external locking hubs. Not pleasant to use in foul
>> weather, but again you always know the state of the front axle because
>> you set it.
>>
>> 4)Install a transfer case conversion that gives you a true neutral.
>> You'd never have to worry about the state of the front axle when you
>> put the transfer case into neutral then.
>>
>> 5)Finally, of course, you can always tow your jeep on a trailer.
>>
>> Comments and questions are welcome.
>>
>> Your mileage may vary.
>> Vehicles in mirror are closer than they appear.
>> Cheers, Ed Humphries
>> Atlanta, Georgia
>>
>
>