Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.

Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).

3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.

In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
for heat but they were found dead the next morning.

CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
the reported events contradict your claim.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
> closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
> so clean that doesn't work anymore.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> > Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >
> > DougW wrote:
> >
> >>Yea.. it's spam.
> >>
> >>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
> >>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
> >>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
> >>
> >>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
> >>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
> >>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
> >>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
> >>construction in all States)
> >>
> >>But back to the garage.
> >>
> >>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
> >>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
> >>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
> >>http://www.nsgv.com/
> >>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
> >>
> >>For those of you with BIG garages.
> >>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
> >>
> >>The basics:
> >>
> >>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
> >>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
> >>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
> >> back into the house.
> >>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
> >>
> >>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
> >>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
> >>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
> >>
> >>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
> >>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
> >>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
> >>sensor in the garage.
> >>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
> >>
> >>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
> >>and adjusted properly so you save money.
> >>
> >>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
> >>
> >>--
> >>Doug(I need a beer)W


--
Will Honea

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

2 kids killed in Corfu of CO poisoning - central heating flue got blocked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6093714.stm

Dave Milne, Scotland

"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-evP0hxD3eVGZ@anon.none.net...
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

2 kids killed in Corfu of CO poisoning - central heating flue got blocked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6093714.stm

Dave Milne, Scotland

"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-evP0hxD3eVGZ@anon.none.net...
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

2 kids killed in Corfu of CO poisoning - central heating flue got blocked.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6093714.stm

Dave Milne, Scotland

"Will Honea" <whonea@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:JxX2tWiP5BNp-pn2-evP0hxD3eVGZ@anon.none.net...
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
good choice for doing yourself in.

If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!

Jeff DeWitt

Will Honea wrote:
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.
>
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
>>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
>>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yea.. it's spam.
>>>>
>>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
>>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
>>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
>>>>
>>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
>>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
>>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
>>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
>>>>construction in all States)
>>>>
>>>>But back to the garage.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
>>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
>>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
>>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
>>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
>>>>
>>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
>>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
>>>>
>>>>The basics:
>>>>
>>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
>>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
>>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
>>>> back into the house.
>>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
>>>>
>>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
>>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
>>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
>>>>
>>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
>>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
>>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
>>>>sensor in the garage.
>>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
>>>>
>>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
>>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
>>>>
>>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
>
>
>

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
good choice for doing yourself in.

If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!

Jeff DeWitt

Will Honea wrote:
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.
>
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
>>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
>>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yea.. it's spam.
>>>>
>>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
>>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
>>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
>>>>
>>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
>>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
>>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
>>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
>>>>construction in all States)
>>>>
>>>>But back to the garage.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
>>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
>>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
>>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
>>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
>>>>
>>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
>>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
>>>>
>>>>The basics:
>>>>
>>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
>>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
>>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
>>>> back into the house.
>>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
>>>>
>>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
>>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
>>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
>>>>
>>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
>>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
>>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
>>>>sensor in the garage.
>>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
>>>>
>>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
>>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
>>>>
>>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
>
>
>

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
good choice for doing yourself in.

If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!

Jeff DeWitt

Will Honea wrote:
> Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
>
> Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
>
> 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
>
> In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
>
> CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> the reported events contradict your claim.
>
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
>>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
>>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
>>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>>
>>>DougW wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Yea.. it's spam.
>>>>
>>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
>>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
>>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
>>>>
>>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
>>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
>>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
>>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
>>>>construction in all States)
>>>>
>>>>But back to the garage.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
>>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
>>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
>>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
>>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
>>>>
>>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
>>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
>>>>
>>>>The basics:
>>>>
>>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
>>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
>>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
>>>> back into the house.
>>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
>>>>
>>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
>>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
>>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
>>>>
>>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
>>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
>>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
>>>>sensor in the garage.
>>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
>>>>
>>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
>>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
>>>>
>>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
>
>
>

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

Didn''t think your were recommending it, Jeff, but working with a
bunch of young kids in a youth group has made me a tad touchy about
things like this. Even the old "well, if a total stranger wrote a
message to you telling you to jump off a cliff, would you?" frequently
draws a long pause while they think about it. I may be just imagining
things as I become a surly old curmudgeon but it seems to me that as
we protect kids from every minor ding the process of learning
judgement from experience gets lost - or the necessary learning
process becomes a whole lot more drastic and expensive.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:17:50 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
> run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
> All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
> good choice for doing yourself in.
>
> If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
> closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
> have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> > Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
> >
> > Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> > the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> > Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> > turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
> >
> > 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> > stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> > CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
> >
> > In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> > ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> > basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> > calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> > for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
> >
> > CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> > exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> > You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> > the reported events contradict your claim.
> >
> > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
> >>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
> >>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
> >>
> >>Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>DougW wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Yea.. it's spam.
> >>>>
> >>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
> >>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
> >>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
> >>>>
> >>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
> >>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
> >>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
> >>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
> >>>>construction in all States)
> >>>>
> >>>>But back to the garage.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
> >>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
> >>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
> >>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
> >>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
> >>>>
> >>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
> >>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>The basics:
> >>>>
> >>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
> >>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
> >>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
> >>>> back into the house.
> >>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
> >>>>
> >>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
> >>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
> >>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
> >>>>
> >>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
> >>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
> >>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
> >>>>sensor in the garage.
> >>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
> >>>>
> >>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
> >>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
> >>>>
> >>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
> >
> >
> >


--
Will Honea

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

Didn''t think your were recommending it, Jeff, but working with a
bunch of young kids in a youth group has made me a tad touchy about
things like this. Even the old "well, if a total stranger wrote a
message to you telling you to jump off a cliff, would you?" frequently
draws a long pause while they think about it. I may be just imagining
things as I become a surly old curmudgeon but it seems to me that as
we protect kids from every minor ding the process of learning
judgement from experience gets lost - or the necessary learning
process becomes a whole lot more drastic and expensive.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:17:50 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
> run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
> All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
> good choice for doing yourself in.
>
> If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
> closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
> have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> > Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
> >
> > Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> > the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> > Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> > turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
> >
> > 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> > stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> > CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
> >
> > In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> > ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> > basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> > calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> > for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
> >
> > CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> > exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> > You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> > the reported events contradict your claim.
> >
> > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
> >>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
> >>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
> >>
> >>Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>DougW wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Yea.. it's spam.
> >>>>
> >>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
> >>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
> >>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
> >>>>
> >>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
> >>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
> >>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
> >>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
> >>>>construction in all States)
> >>>>
> >>>>But back to the garage.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
> >>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
> >>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
> >>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
> >>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
> >>>>
> >>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
> >>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>The basics:
> >>>>
> >>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
> >>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
> >>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
> >>>> back into the house.
> >>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
> >>>>
> >>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
> >>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
> >>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
> >>>>
> >>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
> >>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
> >>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
> >>>>sensor in the garage.
> >>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
> >>>>
> >>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
> >>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
> >>>>
> >>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
> >
> >
> >


--
Will Honea

Re: Exhaust Hose Exxxtravagannnnnzzaaaa...........
 

Didn''t think your were recommending it, Jeff, but working with a
bunch of young kids in a youth group has made me a tad touchy about
things like this. Even the old "well, if a total stranger wrote a
message to you telling you to jump off a cliff, would you?" frequently
draws a long pause while they think about it. I may be just imagining
things as I become a surly old curmudgeon but it seems to me that as
we protect kids from every minor ding the process of learning
judgement from experience gets lost - or the necessary learning
process becomes a whole lot more drastic and expensive.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:17:50 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
wrote:

> I'm making no big claims NOR am I making any recommendations... if you
> run a car in a garage you have to vent it, that's only common sense.
> All I was passing along was that car exhaust was no longer considered a
> good choice for doing yourself in.
>
> If someone decides it's safe to run their car in a garage with the door
> closed because of misinterpreting one post in a Usenet newsgroup they
> have a serious problem that has nothing to do with automobiles!
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> > Want to bet your a$$ on that fact? I don't.
> >
> > Just last year a retired local fireman was killed in his home - not in
> > the garage but in an adjacent room - when he left his early-2000's
> > Grand Cherokee running in the garage then went of sleep without
> > turning it off (or because he didn't turn it off).
> >
> > 3 - 4 years back, a couple of AF Academy cadets in a brand new car got
> > stuck in a blizzard coming back across Kansas. They found the dead of
> > CO poisoning the next morning. Snow had blocked the tailpipe.
> >
> > In the last blizzard thru here, a couple slid off the road into a
> > ditch and couldn't get out. Snow blew up over the side of the car and
> > basically funneled the exhaust back into the vehicle. From cell phone
> > calls, it was know that they were running the engine intermittently
> > for heat but they were found dead the next morning.
> >
> > CO is deadly at relatively low concentrations, well below the typical
> > exhaust measurements we see for smog tests on current model vehicles.
> > You do no one any favors posting this without competent references -
> > the reported events contradict your claim.
> >
> > On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 00:57:20 UTC Jeffrey DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BUT, the Hemlock society no longer recommends the old running car in a
> >>closed garage as an exit strategy, they say that because modern cars run
> >>so clean that doesn't work anymore.
> >>
> >>Jeff DeWitt
> >>
> >>L.W.(Bill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>> Like a gas cloths dyer. I have been guilty of.
> >>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> >>>mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
> >>>
> >>>DougW wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Yea.. it's spam.
> >>>>
> >>>>But it's also a darn good time to remind folks
> >>>>that running a vehicle in a garage without proper
> >>>>ventalation is STUPID and can KILL you.
> >>>>
> >>>>The same goes with fuels and solvents in a garage.
> >>>>Especially if you have a gas hot water heater that
> >>>>hasn't been raised on a 18" stand.
> >>>>(which for the U.S. is code in remodels and new
> >>>>construction in all States)
> >>>>
> >>>>But back to the garage.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.goodyearbeltsandhose.com/...aragehose.html
> >>>>http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/TTW120.html
> >>>>http://oemproamtools.com/garage_exhaust_hose.htm
> >>>>http://www.nsgv.com/
> >>>>http://airhosereels.com/exhosac.html
> >>>>
> >>>>For those of you with BIG garages.
> >>>>http://www.texaselec.com/VehicleExha...ustSystems.htm
> >>>>
> >>>>The basics:
> >>>>
> >>>>1) a gas-tight connection to the vehicles exhaust pipe(s)
> >>>>2) a heat resistant hose that will not melt or catch fire.
> >>>>3) an exterior dump that does not allow fumes to be drawn
> >>>> back into the house.
> >>>>4) a fresh air source away from the exterior dump port.
> >>>>
> >>>>The best systems use a pump to pull the fumes away. This solves
> >>>>the issue with leaky hoses and also creates a negative pressure
> >>>>environment that helps pull fresh air in.
> >>>>
> >>>>Remember that some mufflers have a weep hole that will allow
> >>>>exhaust fumes out, and all vehicles leak exhaust to some extent.
> >>>>It's always better to work with full ventilation and have a CO
> >>>>sensor in the garage.
> >>>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5010.html
> >>>>
> >>>>Also... Check your furnaces and fireplaces. Get them cleaned
> >>>>and adjusted properly so you save money.
> >>>>
> >>>>And don't forget to wash behind your ears. ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Doug(I need a beer)W
> >
> >
> >


--
Will Honea