You bet I will.
Wow, that's really a bum deal.
Thanks for the heads up Coasty!
Kate

"Coasty" <uscg_ret at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:gJmdnUBvip_x17rZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: Kate, check the pump next time you fill up you should see an E-10 on it or
: ask them.
:
: Coasty
:
:
: "Kate" <Kate@dub.dub.dub.com (please ask)> wrote in message
: news:uRGVf.2477$yn4.2363@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:4426E698.309D8ADF@sympatico.ca...
: > : No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in
fuel
: > : in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years.
: > :
: > : It is total -------- about the older engines. The crap eats gas
lines,
: > : the carb float needles go bad and I lose over 25% in mileage and have
: > : no power over 60 mph when I run alcohol mix. Even my owners manual
: > : states 'not' to use the junk.
: > :
: > : I mean I go from over 350 miles per tank of gas down to 250 miles at
: > : best with alcohol mix.
: > :
: > : Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when
mixed.
: > :
: > :
: >
: > WOW - that's really bad mike.
: > I just wonder......
: >
: > My Liberty has gotten worse and worse mileage over the last month. Maybe
: > the
: > station switched while I wasn't looking.
: >
: >
: >
:
:

 

You bet I will.
Wow, that's really a bum deal.
Thanks for the heads up Coasty!
Kate

"Coasty" <uscg_ret at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:gJmdnUBvip_x17rZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: Kate, check the pump next time you fill up you should see an E-10 on it or
: ask them.
:
: Coasty
:
:
: "Kate" <Kate@dub.dub.dub.com (please ask)> wrote in message
: news:uRGVf.2477$yn4.2363@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:4426E698.309D8ADF@sympatico.ca...
: > : No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in
fuel
: > : in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years.
: > :
: > : It is total -------- about the older engines. The crap eats gas
lines,
: > : the carb float needles go bad and I lose over 25% in mileage and have
: > : no power over 60 mph when I run alcohol mix. Even my owners manual
: > : states 'not' to use the junk.
: > :
: > : I mean I go from over 350 miles per tank of gas down to 250 miles at
: > : best with alcohol mix.
: > :
: > : Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when
mixed.
: > :
: > :
: >
: > WOW - that's really bad mike.
: > I just wonder......
: >
: > My Liberty has gotten worse and worse mileage over the last month. Maybe
: > the
: > station switched while I wasn't looking.
: >
: >
: >
:
:

 

You bet I will.
Wow, that's really a bum deal.
Thanks for the heads up Coasty!
Kate

"Coasty" <uscg_ret at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:gJmdnUBvip_x17rZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
: Kate, check the pump next time you fill up you should see an E-10 on it or
: ask them.
:
: Coasty
:
:
: "Kate" <Kate@dub.dub.dub.com (please ask)> wrote in message
: news:uRGVf.2477$yn4.2363@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
: >
: > "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
: > news:4426E698.309D8ADF@sympatico.ca...
: > : No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in
fuel
: > : in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years.
: > :
: > : It is total -------- about the older engines. The crap eats gas
lines,
: > : the carb float needles go bad and I lose over 25% in mileage and have
: > : no power over 60 mph when I run alcohol mix. Even my owners manual
: > : states 'not' to use the junk.
: > :
: > : I mean I go from over 350 miles per tank of gas down to 250 miles at
: > : best with alcohol mix.
: > :
: > : Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when
mixed.
: > :
: > :
: >
: > WOW - that's really bad mike.
: > I just wonder......
: >
: > My Liberty has gotten worse and worse mileage over the last month. Maybe
: > the
: > station switched while I wasn't looking.
: >
: >
: >
:
:

 

Our Cherokee 4.0 doesn't seem to mind any old crap for gas.

I run a 195 T-stat in the 4.2 and it normally runs about 210 or so. It
is set up manually for carb and timing with no pollution computer
running. Basically a pre 82 setup on a pre 82 engine. (think the
engine is a 78, should check

I have lots of heat. A bit too much in the summer because my winch and
lights block some of the rad flow. Not hot enough to ever boil over,
but I have 'failed' a fail safe t-stat open while off road running.

I tried messing with the mix via the carb's metering pins to make it run
a bit richer, but all that did was give me a mid range bog and lowered
my mileage.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> What kind of thermostat do you have in that vehicle? The FI rigs I have are
> pretty tolerant of what passes for fuel at the pumps near here, but FI
> doesn't make fuel burn any better than a carburetor does.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4427294A.3771817C@sympatico.ca...
> > I don't think so..... My needles barely last a year. The are done in
> > for sure every 2 years. The one I have in now has started to leak and
> > it's only a year old. I just pulled it and cleaned it's slides and tip
> > and we will see if I have to buy a kit or not....
> >
> > I was experimenting with that crappy gas mix and my carb's mix to see if
> > I could burn the junk. Folks told me I was running lean if it wouldn't
> > burn alcohol so I tried to rich it up via the internal metering
> > needles. All that got me was a mid range bog and bad gas mileage.
> >
> > I just went back to the stock settings and am hoping on the needle...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > > I was being my usual sarcastic self, they've replaced the neoprene
> > > with some other plastic, like in this new Holley kit:
> > > http://www.----------.com/holley.jpg
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:--------------------
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No way, I am still getting the neoprene needle seats...
> > > >
> > > > Mike
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

 

Our Cherokee 4.0 doesn't seem to mind any old crap for gas.

I run a 195 T-stat in the 4.2 and it normally runs about 210 or so. It
is set up manually for carb and timing with no pollution computer
running. Basically a pre 82 setup on a pre 82 engine. (think the
engine is a 78, should check

I have lots of heat. A bit too much in the summer because my winch and
lights block some of the rad flow. Not hot enough to ever boil over,
but I have 'failed' a fail safe t-stat open while off road running.

I tried messing with the mix via the carb's metering pins to make it run
a bit richer, but all that did was give me a mid range bog and lowered
my mileage.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> What kind of thermostat do you have in that vehicle? The FI rigs I have are
> pretty tolerant of what passes for fuel at the pumps near here, but FI
> doesn't make fuel burn any better than a carburetor does.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4427294A.3771817C@sympatico.ca...
> > I don't think so..... My needles barely last a year. The are done in
> > for sure every 2 years. The one I have in now has started to leak and
> > it's only a year old. I just pulled it and cleaned it's slides and tip
> > and we will see if I have to buy a kit or not....
> >
> > I was experimenting with that crappy gas mix and my carb's mix to see if
> > I could burn the junk. Folks told me I was running lean if it wouldn't
> > burn alcohol so I tried to rich it up via the internal metering
> > needles. All that got me was a mid range bog and bad gas mileage.
> >
> > I just went back to the stock settings and am hoping on the needle...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > > I was being my usual sarcastic self, they've replaced the neoprene
> > > with some other plastic, like in this new Holley kit:
> > > http://www.----------.com/holley.jpg
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:--------------------
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No way, I am still getting the neoprene needle seats...
> > > >
> > > > Mike
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

 

Our Cherokee 4.0 doesn't seem to mind any old crap for gas.

I run a 195 T-stat in the 4.2 and it normally runs about 210 or so. It
is set up manually for carb and timing with no pollution computer
running. Basically a pre 82 setup on a pre 82 engine. (think the
engine is a 78, should check

I have lots of heat. A bit too much in the summer because my winch and
lights block some of the rad flow. Not hot enough to ever boil over,
but I have 'failed' a fail safe t-stat open while off road running.

I tried messing with the mix via the carb's metering pins to make it run
a bit richer, but all that did was give me a mid range bog and lowered
my mileage.

Mike

Earle Horton wrote:
>
> What kind of thermostat do you have in that vehicle? The FI rigs I have are
> pretty tolerant of what passes for fuel at the pumps near here, but FI
> doesn't make fuel burn any better than a carburetor does.
>
> Earle
>
> "Mike Romain" <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:4427294A.3771817C@sympatico.ca...
> > I don't think so..... My needles barely last a year. The are done in
> > for sure every 2 years. The one I have in now has started to leak and
> > it's only a year old. I just pulled it and cleaned it's slides and tip
> > and we will see if I have to buy a kit or not....
> >
> > I was experimenting with that crappy gas mix and my carb's mix to see if
> > I could burn the junk. Folks told me I was running lean if it wouldn't
> > burn alcohol so I tried to rich it up via the internal metering
> > needles. All that got me was a mid range bog and bad gas mileage.
> >
> > I just went back to the stock settings and am hoping on the needle...
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > "L.W.(ßill) ------ III" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > > I was being my usual sarcastic self, they've replaced the neoprene
> > > with some other plastic, like in this new Holley kit:
> > > http://www.----------.com/holley.jpg
> > > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > > mailto:--------------------
> > >
> > > Mike Romain wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No way, I am still getting the neoprene needle seats...
> > > >
> > > > Mike
>
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

 

It /appears/ that the show may have misunderstood. What I found was
that the US EPA is dropping the oxygenation requirements for
Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) road fuel effective May, 2006. MTBE was the
agent that was most commonly used -- until individual USofA states
started banning it over groundwater contamination and carcinogenesis
concerns. This doesn't mean that they will require E-10 in its place.

Here's a news article from Maryland that gives a quick gloss on the subject:
<URL:http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.mtbe17feb17001554,0,5399305.story?coll=bal-local-harford>

Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives,
it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state,
has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years.

In addition, MTBE producers are shutting down production of the
additive, partly because they've failed to secure immunity from civil
lawsuits, partly over diminished demand as gasoline marketers run away
from it and individual states ban it as an additive. This leaves
ethanol as the most likely replacement.

I can't find anything that says that the EPA will require all RFG to be
E-10, and it wouldn't make sense anyway when E-5 works just as well from
a tailpipe emissions point of view. And I'm not sure that there's
enough corn in the country to make that much ethanol right now anyway.

Further reading:
EPA Regulations and Standards - Reformulated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg_regs.htm>

Chevron - Oxygenated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxygenated-gasoline/>

And an amusing one:
"Evaluation of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) as an interference on
commercial breath-alcohol analyzers"
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/nerl/nerlmtbe.htm>
Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive
Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope.


Coasty wrote:
> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was
> listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10
> (10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Pat discussed the
> new stuff at length and basically stated it will be fine even for older
> autos. He said that in older autos the ethanol is a super cleaner and will
> break lose all kinds of stuff in the fuel system. He said if you notice
> your auto running really crapy just change the fuel filter.
>
> Coasty
>
>

 

It /appears/ that the show may have misunderstood. What I found was
that the US EPA is dropping the oxygenation requirements for
Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) road fuel effective May, 2006. MTBE was the
agent that was most commonly used -- until individual USofA states
started banning it over groundwater contamination and carcinogenesis
concerns. This doesn't mean that they will require E-10 in its place.

Here's a news article from Maryland that gives a quick gloss on the subject:
<URL:http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.mtbe17feb17001554,0,5399305.story?coll=bal-local-harford>

Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives,
it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state,
has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years.

In addition, MTBE producers are shutting down production of the
additive, partly because they've failed to secure immunity from civil
lawsuits, partly over diminished demand as gasoline marketers run away
from it and individual states ban it as an additive. This leaves
ethanol as the most likely replacement.

I can't find anything that says that the EPA will require all RFG to be
E-10, and it wouldn't make sense anyway when E-5 works just as well from
a tailpipe emissions point of view. And I'm not sure that there's
enough corn in the country to make that much ethanol right now anyway.

Further reading:
EPA Regulations and Standards - Reformulated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg_regs.htm>

Chevron - Oxygenated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxygenated-gasoline/>

And an amusing one:
"Evaluation of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) as an interference on
commercial breath-alcohol analyzers"
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/nerl/nerlmtbe.htm>
Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive
Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope.


Coasty wrote:
> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was
> listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10
> (10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Pat discussed the
> new stuff at length and basically stated it will be fine even for older
> autos. He said that in older autos the ethanol is a super cleaner and will
> break lose all kinds of stuff in the fuel system. He said if you notice
> your auto running really crapy just change the fuel filter.
>
> Coasty
>
>

 

It /appears/ that the show may have misunderstood. What I found was
that the US EPA is dropping the oxygenation requirements for
Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) road fuel effective May, 2006. MTBE was the
agent that was most commonly used -- until individual USofA states
started banning it over groundwater contamination and carcinogenesis
concerns. This doesn't mean that they will require E-10 in its place.

Here's a news article from Maryland that gives a quick gloss on the subject:
<URL:http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/harford/bal-md.mtbe17feb17001554,0,5399305.story?coll=bal-local-harford>

Individual states are free to continue to require oxygenate additives,
it is just that the Feds won't require it. Connecticut, my home state,
has used 5% ethanol for its RFG for several years.

In addition, MTBE producers are shutting down production of the
additive, partly because they've failed to secure immunity from civil
lawsuits, partly over diminished demand as gasoline marketers run away
from it and individual states ban it as an additive. This leaves
ethanol as the most likely replacement.

I can't find anything that says that the EPA will require all RFG to be
E-10, and it wouldn't make sense anyway when E-5 works just as well from
a tailpipe emissions point of view. And I'm not sure that there's
enough corn in the country to make that much ethanol right now anyway.

Further reading:
EPA Regulations and Standards - Reformulated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg_regs.htm>

Chevron - Oxygenated Gasoline:
<URL:http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/4_oxygenated-gasoline/>

And an amusing one:
"Evaluation of methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) as an interference on
commercial breath-alcohol analyzers"
<URL:http://www.epa.gov/nerl/nerlmtbe.htm>
Can excessive occupational exposure to MTBE result in false positive
Breath-a-lizer readings? Nope.


Coasty wrote:
> Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was
> listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10
> (10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Pat discussed the
> new stuff at length and basically stated it will be fine even for older
> autos. He said that in older autos the ethanol is a super cleaner and will
> break lose all kinds of stuff in the fuel system. He said if you notice
> your auto running really crapy just change the fuel filter.
>
> Coasty
>
>

 

E-5, not E-10. See:
<URL:http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/infores/releases/2005/100507.html>


Mike Romain wrote:
> No joke unfortunately. They are talking about mandating alcohol in fuel
> in Canada too or at least in Ontario in the next couple years.
>
> It is total -------- about the older engines. The crap eats gas lines,
> the carb float needles go bad and I lose over 25% in mileage and have
> no power over 60 mph when I run alcohol mix. Even my owners manual
> states 'not' to use the junk.
>
> I mean I go from over 350 miles per tank of gas down to 250 miles at
> best with alcohol mix.
>
> Great stuff, it is more expensive and we use Way more of it when mixed.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Coasty wrote:
>
>>Well, I must have been under a rock or in lala land to miss this. I was
>>listening to Goss' Garage today and April 1st 2006 all gasoline will be E-10
>>(10% ethanol) which replaces the current MTBE additive. Pat discussed the
>>new stuff at length and basically stated it will be fine even for older
>>autos. He said that in older autos the ethanol is a super cleaner and will
>>break lose all kinds of stuff in the fuel system. He said if you notice
>>your auto running really crapy just change the fuel filter.
>>
>>Coasty